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Freedom will come from market choice. I fight for the freedom of car companies to make their own choices on how their products can be used. Let them apply their

Freedom will come from market choice. I fight for the freedom of car companies to make their own choices on how their products can be used. Let them apply their own restrictions. Thats freedom

gambiting 6y ago
Like.....that's an incredibly twisted logic. How is it freedom, when a corporation gets to dictate how you use their product after its bought and paid for?? That's not freedom, not in any sense of the word. Corporations should be free to manufacture any car in any way they like. But they shouldn't be able to tell us what to do with our property, don't you see or appreciate having a freedom to do whatever and however you please with items that you have bought? It's like arguing that you should be able to enter an employment contract that stipulates physical punishment for making mistakes at work - surely, being able to enter such contract is freedom! If you don't like it, go somewhere else, market forces will sort it out! And yet, we as society have decided that no, physical punishment is not acceptable and you cannot waive your right to be free of it. That's freedom. Not what you are saying.
- enos_feedler 6y ago
  I feel like I _can_ do whatever I please with items I bought. I see the iPhone as an integrated product. There is no boundary between semiconductor, system board, operating system, application runtime, and the 3rd party app ecosystem. It is all one product. Being able to split this apart so I can tinker at the interfaces is not something I demand from something I pay for. Whatever I try to do outside of their expected use of the product is sort of a crapshoot. It says nothing about freedom. Physical punishment is just a terrible comparison.
  - arcticbull 6y ago
    This neither lines up with reality (as in there are defined boundaries as devices are made by people on different teams each operating on their own abstractions) or with the reality we want to see. Part of the trade-off that large companies accept in being allowed to become mega-players in a space is that to make up for the lack of individual power, the government may step in and make the world better for individuals at the expense of the larger companies by, for instance, mandating freedoms: freedom to repair (especially in the case of cars), freedom to re-sell (that's the first-sale doctrine in case you're curious), and so on. We're talking about individual freedoms.
arcticbull 6y ago
Again you didn't answer my question. Why are you advocating to have your own rights/freedoms removed for the benefit of the company? Not even the company is asking for that. Why don't you leave advocating for the company to paid advocates of the company? Let's be super clear, once you purchase the car, it's not their product, it's your car. That's how ownership works. Once it is in your physical lawful possession, it is your to do with as you please. The entire legal system is built around this idea. For instance, if someone steals my car and wrecks it, does Volkswagen sue the car thief for damages, or do I? If you answered anything other than Volkswagen, it's not "their product" anymore.

Freedom will come from market choice. I fight for the freedom of car companies to make their own choices on how their products can be used. Let them apply their own restrictions. Thats freedom

gambiting 6y ago

Like.....that's an incredibly twisted logic. How is it freedom, when a corporation gets to dictate how you use their product after its bought and paid for?? That's not freedom, not in any sense of the word. Corporations should be free to manufacture any car in any way they like. But they shouldn't be able to tell us what to do with our property, don't you see or appreciate having a freedom to do whatever and however you please with items that you have bought? It's like arguing that you should be able to enter an employment contract that stipulates physical punishment for making mistakes at work - surely, being able to enter such contract is freedom! If you don't like it, go somewhere else, market forces will sort it out! And yet, we as society have decided that no, physical punishment is not acceptable and you cannot waive your right to be free of it. That's freedom. Not what you are saying.

enos_feedler 6y ago
I feel like I _can_ do whatever I please with items I bought. I see the iPhone as an integrated product. There is no boundary between semiconductor, system board, operating system, application runtime, and the 3rd party app ecosystem. It is all one product. Being able to split this apart so I can tinker at the interfaces is not something I demand from something I pay for. Whatever I try to do outside of their expected use of the product is sort of a crapshoot. It says nothing about freedom. Physical punishment is just a terrible comparison.
- arcticbull 6y ago
  This neither lines up with reality (as in there are defined boundaries as devices are made by people on different teams each operating on their own abstractions) or with the reality we want to see. Part of the trade-off that large companies accept in being allowed to become mega-players in a space is that to make up for the lack of individual power, the government may step in and make the world better for individuals at the expense of the larger companies by, for instance, mandating freedoms: freedom to repair (especially in the case of cars), freedom to re-sell (that's the first-sale doctrine in case you're curious), and so on. We're talking about individual freedoms.

arcticbull 6y ago

Again you didn't answer my question. Why are you advocating to have your own rights/freedoms removed for the benefit of the company? Not even the company is asking for that. Why don't you leave advocating for the company to paid advocates of the company? Let's be super clear, once you purchase the car, it's not their product, it's your car. That's how ownership works. Once it is in your physical lawful possession, it is your to do with as you please. The entire legal system is built around this idea. For instance, if someone steals my car and wrecks it, does Volkswagen sue the car thief for damages, or do I? If you answered anything other than Volkswagen, it's not "their product" anymore.