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> I own a 2020 Supra and I've been concerned its value will tank if electric sports cars take over. It's a fantastic car with unbelievable price to performance,

> I own a 2020 Supra and I've been concerned its value will tank if electric sports cars take over. It's a fantastic car with unbelievable price to performance, but this is clearly on the way out. Why'd you buy a re-badged BMW if you are worried about re-sale value and not just buy a MK4 Supra as an investment that holds its Toyota tax value as well as the Landcruisers have? EV is finally making even the non-believers aware that the paradigm shift is happening, what I fail to see is how well those ICE to EV conversions will be. Much of the excitement of a ICE is how it makes you feel from the sound to the vibration you feel, when its all dialed in its an inexplicable feeling that satisfies all 5 senses. You get none of that driving an EV, I did 1000 miles in a performance Model 3 when it first came out and while it was fun, and you have to have a different approach to driving a car with 100% torque at 0 RPM. The raw feeling of man and machine coming into one wasn't there at all, although it was a lot of fun to drive, which is why I'm giving up my collection of ICE stuff besides my first car and bike and getting a Cybertruck.

seibelj 6y ago
I agree that the ICE rumbling is amazing. I’m genuinely concerned that as California (and eventually other states) ban ICE cars the entire infrastructure of repairs, sales, and eventually gas will collapse. It just seems like its days are numbered.
- Melting_Harps 6y ago
  Japan just commited to stop producing them in ~2035 [0], that means all the assembly line for OEMs will also have to pivot, so getting parts will be incredbly hard. I'm a diehard Pajero/Montero fan and have owned several, but this year was my fixations swan song as I had to deal with the delays from COIVD but also the fact that after Nissan's acquisition of Mitsubishi meant its entire back catalog of parts were a liability and they stopped making them in Japan so they simply stopped producing them in any significant numbers for the vehicles still on the road. I can give you a long list of reasons of why that makes sense from a supply chain/logistics standpoint, but the short answer is this too will eventually happen to you car. I worked for BMW before, and its EV program was at best a plaything, but given the amount of progress made by Tesla and now Toyota I fear you may be in a situation where they simply stop producing parts and you'll have to buy broken chassis to just be able to maintain one. In other words, have your fun and keep it as a relic of the 20th Century, or sell it now and get some of you investment back. Get an LFA and keep low miles on it if you want to buy a Toyota that will rise in value if you want something other than a MK4 Supra, I think that will be worth way more in the future and probably sought out by Saudi Shieks as a plaything where gas will still be pennies. 0: https://www.autoblog.com/2020/12/03/japan-considers-ban-on-internal-combustion-cars/ https://www.autoblog.com/2020/12/03/japan-considers-ban-on-i...
  - seibelj 6y ago
    What electric sports car will be your first purchase, if and when you do so? Which make and (if exists so far) model?
    - Melting_Harps 6y ago
      > What electric sports car will be your first purchase Disclaimer: I can't afford a Roadster II. I've had enough high HP cars and super sport bikes on the street to know they're a waste of time and energy 90% of the time. I'll take a Cybertruck and haul my car/bike (the only ones I'm keeping) to the track when I want to get that excitement back and use them to their full potential; both have amazing power/weight ratios that rival many modern'ish super cars--the bike will outrun a Ferrari Enzo in a straight and will embarrass one in the turns, don't ask me how I know. Perhaps I'll even buy a shifter kart before I buy another 'sports car' ICE or EV ever again. But, if I had to choose and money were no object it would definitely be the Plaid Version Roadster 2, I'm excited to see what Nissan comes out with (if they survive) but other than that not I'm really interested in EV sports cars for the street enough to care. I used to run the indoor K1 karts for fun and to keep fit and sharp in the off-season, and its just not the same.
elihu 6y ago
> The raw feeling of man and machine coming into one wasn't there at all, although it was a lot of fun to drive, which is why I'm giving up my collection of ICE stuff besides my first car and bike and getting a Cybertruck. I wonder if this is more of a Telsa thing than an electric car thing? I test-drove a dual-motor model-3, and while the acceleration was very impressive, it felt kind of boring to drive in general. Not that I'm some automotive connoisseur, I've been mostly driving boring stick-shift Hondas for the last couple decades. (My current project is to convert a Mazda RX-8 I picked up cheap with a bad engine to electric. I thought about getting a Tesla model 3, but in the end it wasn't quite the car I wanted, and was more expensive than I wanted to pay, and too locked down. If I can get the RX-8 going, it'll have a lot less range and not any better in terms of storage space, but it should at least be fun to drive and I can configure it however I like.)
- Melting_Harps 6y ago
  > My current project is to convert a Mazda RX-8 I And do what with it? I'm a Nissan guy, and only reason to ever get a Mazda was to be able to bounce a 13b/20b off redline on the track for the ~30k before it needed a rebuild, why would an EV RX8, arguable the least interesting of all the RX chassis be a good platform? I'm not trying to discourage you as I think it seems like a cool thing to play with if you have the time/money, but what adjustability would you have not found with a 13b/20b in it?
  - elihu 6y ago
    I wanted an electric car, to get away from having to buy gas. The rotary engine is the most interesting thing about the RX-8, but without it it's still an overall pretty good car, and there's a surplus of used RX-8s out there with about 100,000 miles that need an apex seal replacement at the least, which the owners are willing to unload very cheaply. I could have looked for an RX-7, but those seem to be a lot more expensive and harder to find, and besides I like the look of the RX-8. I also wanted modern safety features and a vehicle that's relatively new. The RX-7 is about 200 pounds lighter, but it's also a 2-seater so less room to haul stuff. (Mazda also made a rotary pickup which would also be an awesome conversion, but those are much rarer.) Really, the main decision point for me was whether to get an RX-8, or go with a Miata, which is about a thousand pounds lighter. In some ways, the Miata might have been a better choice, but I live in a rainy climate and sometimes want to transport large objects. Also, used Miatas tend to be either thirty years old or expensive, so I went with the RX-8. As for what I'll do with it? Mostly just use it to get around town, like any other car. I've never owned anything that one could plausibly describe as a "sports car", and I don't know if I'll do any stereotypical sports car things like drive it up and down windy roads or take it to a track. It should at least perform decently. The motor I'm putting in it is about 120 HP, which is a lot less than the 230 or so HP that the rotary could put out, but the torque is about the same and I get full torque from 0 rpm. I'm keeping the 6-speed and clutch, so that should go a long way towards not needing a super-powerful motor. The hard part of the project so far has been building the battery enclosures for about 450 pounds of LiFePO4 cells, a little over half of which go in the engine compartment, and the rest go under the car where the gas tank was. It'll be a little heavier and probably have the weight a little forward of where it was originally, but it should be at least close. Tl;dr: RX-8s are really cheap if you don't need a working engine, and if you're going to convert a sedan you might as well go with something with something more fun than a Toyota Corolla or whatever.

seibelj 6y ago

I agree that the ICE rumbling is amazing. I’m genuinely concerned that as California (and eventually other states) ban ICE cars the entire infrastructure of repairs, sales, and eventually gas will collapse. It just seems like its days are numbered.

Melting_Harps 6y ago
Japan just commited to stop producing them in ~2035 [0], that means all the assembly line for OEMs will also have to pivot, so getting parts will be incredbly hard. I'm a diehard Pajero/Montero fan and have owned several, but this year was my fixations swan song as I had to deal with the delays from COIVD but also the fact that after Nissan's acquisition of Mitsubishi meant its entire back catalog of parts were a liability and they stopped making them in Japan so they simply stopped producing them in any significant numbers for the vehicles still on the road. I can give you a long list of reasons of why that makes sense from a supply chain/logistics standpoint, but the short answer is this too will eventually happen to you car. I worked for BMW before, and its EV program was at best a plaything, but given the amount of progress made by Tesla and now Toyota I fear you may be in a situation where they simply stop producing parts and you'll have to buy broken chassis to just be able to maintain one. In other words, have your fun and keep it as a relic of the 20th Century, or sell it now and get some of you investment back. Get an LFA and keep low miles on it if you want to buy a Toyota that will rise in value if you want something other than a MK4 Supra, I think that will be worth way more in the future and probably sought out by Saudi Shieks as a plaything where gas will still be pennies. 0: https://www.autoblog.com/2020/12/03/japan-considers-ban-on-internal-combustion-cars/ https://www.autoblog.com/2020/12/03/japan-considers-ban-on-i...
- seibelj 6y ago
  What electric sports car will be your first purchase, if and when you do so? Which make and (if exists so far) model?
  - Melting_Harps 6y ago
    > What electric sports car will be your first purchase Disclaimer: I can't afford a Roadster II. I've had enough high HP cars and super sport bikes on the street to know they're a waste of time and energy 90% of the time. I'll take a Cybertruck and haul my car/bike (the only ones I'm keeping) to the track when I want to get that excitement back and use them to their full potential; both have amazing power/weight ratios that rival many modern'ish super cars--the bike will outrun a Ferrari Enzo in a straight and will embarrass one in the turns, don't ask me how I know. Perhaps I'll even buy a shifter kart before I buy another 'sports car' ICE or EV ever again. But, if I had to choose and money were no object it would definitely be the Plaid Version Roadster 2, I'm excited to see what Nissan comes out with (if they survive) but other than that not I'm really interested in EV sports cars for the street enough to care. I used to run the indoor K1 karts for fun and to keep fit and sharp in the off-season, and its just not the same.

elihu 6y ago

> The raw feeling of man and machine coming into one wasn't there at all, although it was a lot of fun to drive, which is why I'm giving up my collection of ICE stuff besides my first car and bike and getting a Cybertruck. I wonder if this is more of a Telsa thing than an electric car thing? I test-drove a dual-motor model-3, and while the acceleration was very impressive, it felt kind of boring to drive in general. Not that I'm some automotive connoisseur, I've been mostly driving boring stick-shift Hondas for the last couple decades. (My current project is to convert a Mazda RX-8 I picked up cheap with a bad engine to electric. I thought about getting a Tesla model 3, but in the end it wasn't quite the car I wanted, and was more expensive than I wanted to pay, and too locked down. If I can get the RX-8 going, it'll have a lot less range and not any better in terms of storage space, but it should at least be fun to drive and I can configure it however I like.)

Melting_Harps 6y ago
> My current project is to convert a Mazda RX-8 I And do what with it? I'm a Nissan guy, and only reason to ever get a Mazda was to be able to bounce a 13b/20b off redline on the track for the ~30k before it needed a rebuild, why would an EV RX8, arguable the least interesting of all the RX chassis be a good platform? I'm not trying to discourage you as I think it seems like a cool thing to play with if you have the time/money, but what adjustability would you have not found with a 13b/20b in it?
- elihu 6y ago
  I wanted an electric car, to get away from having to buy gas. The rotary engine is the most interesting thing about the RX-8, but without it it's still an overall pretty good car, and there's a surplus of used RX-8s out there with about 100,000 miles that need an apex seal replacement at the least, which the owners are willing to unload very cheaply. I could have looked for an RX-7, but those seem to be a lot more expensive and harder to find, and besides I like the look of the RX-8. I also wanted modern safety features and a vehicle that's relatively new. The RX-7 is about 200 pounds lighter, but it's also a 2-seater so less room to haul stuff. (Mazda also made a rotary pickup which would also be an awesome conversion, but those are much rarer.) Really, the main decision point for me was whether to get an RX-8, or go with a Miata, which is about a thousand pounds lighter. In some ways, the Miata might have been a better choice, but I live in a rainy climate and sometimes want to transport large objects. Also, used Miatas tend to be either thirty years old or expensive, so I went with the RX-8. As for what I'll do with it? Mostly just use it to get around town, like any other car. I've never owned anything that one could plausibly describe as a "sports car", and I don't know if I'll do any stereotypical sports car things like drive it up and down windy roads or take it to a track. It should at least perform decently. The motor I'm putting in it is about 120 HP, which is a lot less than the 230 or so HP that the rotary could put out, but the torque is about the same and I get full torque from 0 rpm. I'm keeping the 6-speed and clutch, so that should go a long way towards not needing a super-powerful motor. The hard part of the project so far has been building the battery enclosures for about 450 pounds of LiFePO4 cells, a little over half of which go in the engine compartment, and the rest go under the car where the gas tank was. It'll be a little heavier and probably have the weight a little forward of where it was originally, but it should be at least close. Tl;dr: RX-8s are really cheap if you don't need a working engine, and if you're going to convert a sedan you might as well go with something with something more fun than a Toyota Corolla or whatever.