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I think this is a pretty good writeup on how disabilities are dealt with in society. For myself, I'm bipolar. I've had significant difficult my entire life but

I think this is a pretty good writeup on how disabilities are dealt with in society. For myself, I'm bipolar. I've had significant difficult my entire life but I didn't know why until recently. Being bipolar has a severe impact on every aspect of my life. In relation to work, it's just painful. I need accommodations to handle a 40-hour work week. I need a regular schedule. I can't be on-call during the night because I take medication to sleep; I can't even walk properly during that time. I have days where it's better to one day off than spend a entire week being unproductive. Despite all of this, I've managed to be as productive as my non-disabled coworkers because I am good at what I do. I know how to cope with my symptoms but I can't cope with having to do it the same way everyone else does. And it seems like no one else can cope with me either. Not being able to be in the on-call rotation causes resentment. Being randomly sick is disruptive. So many people think I'm off having fun while I'm actual at home trying not to kill myself. (I deal with suicidal thoughts quite frequently, never attempted.) This is all made worse by being unable to explain to my coworkers and managers why I need these accommodations. My dad thinks I'm demon-possessed. I'm not exactly keen on finding out that one of my coworkers has the same belief. My friends know, because I can afford to lose friends. I can't afford to lose a job. It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. Needing accommodation was a major factor in losing my last job. I was transferred to a department where I couldn't be promoted due to my limitations and then let go at the earliest opportunity. Edit: Forgot to mention I also have a milk allergy, can't have caffeine, and can't drink alcohol. This severely limits my ability to go out with coworkers. Sit-down restaurants that advertise handling allergies don't. I've gotten extremely sick from every one I've tried to eat at despite being extremely clear that I'm sensitive to cross-contamination. Fast food is hit or miss. I can't even trust Starbucks to use coconut milk instead of regular milk when I ask for it.

samsquire 6y ago
I would recommend praying for deliverance, even if you think it would not work.
edgyquant 6y ago
I also deal with bipolar but I actually attribute being able to work in startups to it. I mostly have up days so I can go 10 hours without losing interest a week and a half at a time. But this comes with the downside of having a handful of days a month where I legit couldn’t churn out a couple hours worth of work no matter how hard I try. Luckily the places I’ve worked don’t care too much as I can make up for it the next day in one of my super sprints. This isn’t good for my mental health in the long run, probably, but tbh I’d deal with it anyway so I don’t think I could handle a normal 9-5: when I was younger and I worked those types of jobs my down days would be depressing for sure I don’t know how I managed other than maybe it’s gotten worse with age.
- mclam 6y ago
  Your first sentence I resonated with. I think it can still work in the right circumstance. Think I've burnt out though. Not just of programming. It's kind of comforting to see BP on HN more so these days. Usually it feels lonely because people diagnosed I know aren't programmers. For me, I think it has gotten worse with age and presents new struggles. In regards to the article. I don't respond, or I mark no. It never seems worth it to announce it.
- rvp-x 6y ago
  this sounds really bad for you :( there's nothing wrong with not being productive sometimes. you shouldn't need like you need to "catch up" by doing insane amounts of work. This mentality totally screwed me over during university, and I feel like a lot of my mental stability right now comes from how my job place has guilt-free discussions about what we can finish in the remainder of the time until the deadline, without "oh we'll just work harder".
- anon9001 6y ago
  Heh, that sounds like how I manage to hold down a job with ADHD, except my "up days" are because I took stimulants. If I knew in college what I know now, I would have 100% had all the paperwork to be considered "disabled" by the government. I tried to do the right thing and emulate a successful adult life, but it's been a pretty miserable experience so far. At this point, after so many years in tech, there's no way I could convince the government that they should cover my health care and pay me a stipend because I'm so disabled that I can't work. There's not much else to do at this point besides push through to retirement, one day at a time.
hrktb 6y ago
There is such a bias towards regularity, I feel like an alien when trying to question why we should care. I had a coworker that might have been bipolar as well but didn’t really explicit it, and we felt we shouldn’t dig. In a week to week basis work was done. We were a team of 7 so someone being on or off at a given time had little impact, hell any member could be warped into another project for 3 days and come back later, nobody was dying, nobody really cared, we just re-shuffled tasks and go on with our life. But she had points ducked from her evaluations every quarter for not having a regular schedule, and submitting sick days without notice. Nothing else in our job was predictable (and we had no on call shift), but it was sacro-saint to have a regular presence, and my bosses looked personally attacked someone could not respect the set rythm. They were all smart people, but it was maddening. Sorry for the rant, but It still pisses me off years later.
- tener 6y ago
  There are all sorts of arbitrary requirements to behave in certain way as a proxy of achieving results. Unfortunately this is quite common as it makes the manager feel safe and in control if his subordinates achieve the results in the way she expects them to, but it raises the bar high for no benefit to the bottom line.
- driverdan 6y ago
  > submitting sick days without notice Who the hell knows when they're going to be sick? I've never heard of such a thing.
  - faeyanpiraat 6y ago
    Well, if you get a common cold, then sometimes you can feel whether it is manageable, or starts getting worse. Then you'll have a whole working day, where you are functioning at like 50% capacity, and at least you can pass on your work which might block others to a colleague. In my experience most of the time this is the case. Reporting in sick in the morning all the time can be quite distruptive in some jobs. If I were in this situation I would look for a job where there is more flexibility in this regard. Or keep an up-to-date document where I list all the ongoing tasks and their statuses and next steps (this would probably add a lot of overhead though)
wayoutthere 6y ago
Also bipolar person here. I gravitated toward consulting because it allows me the freedom to make my own accommodations. I have actually worked for huge consulting companies and currently work for a mid-size one. I also don’t drink caffeine or alcohol on account of said bipolar. I don’t come out and say that I’m bipolar, but I do make it known that I have chronic mental health stuff that I need space to deal with sometimes. I also have hypomanic periods where I’m incredibly productive, and I think that helps smooth over relations with co-workers and bosses because when I’m good, I’m really good. When I’m bad I need space to sort it out and clear expectations of what I need to get done from a work standpoint. Consulting works well because you kind of manage your own time, work is delivered in teams (at least in my world,) and if you can manage your client relationships well it smooths over a lot of bumps. If you work for a good company that gives you space to be a flawed human, you can make it work. The pandemic has actually helped quite a lot; I no longer have pressure to go hang out with a bunch of people drinking when all I want to do is sleep. As long as I show up to meetings and communicate about what I can and can’t do it works out for me.
- kayodelycaon 6y ago
  For people that can do it, consulting would be a good solution. Unfortunately, it’s not something I can handle.
driverdan 6y ago
Have you tried looking for a better employer? The teams I've worked with wouldn't have had any problems accommodating you.
- kayodelycaon 6y ago
  Given I can’t manage a 40-hour work week to start with, looking for a job while I have a job isn’t doable. That said, I’m available if someone wants a senior rails dev. :)
  - driverdan 6y ago
    I'll check my network and pass on your info if I hear of anything.
- handoflixue 6y ago
  Do you have any particular reason to believe that? I've worked lots of places that looked very accommodating on the surface, but that doesn't mean they handle things like bi-polar well. In particular, "obvious" disabilities like a wheelchair seem to get handled a lot better. Conversely, policy exceptions like a bi-polar person needing to take more sick days, seem to breed a lot of resentment in certain sorts of managers.
  - driverdan 6y ago
    Because I've been in management in my past few companies and work to accommodate everyone. I find that remote work is especially amenable to accommodating disabilities and mental health.
faeyanpiraat 6y ago
I've seen someone bragging about giving normal milk to people asking for special milk as a barista in starbucks, it then blew up on social media, and he got fired? Maybe I'm just mixing up stuff I don't know. If I remember correctly the reasoning behind it was quite ugly; he couldn't stand people who drank those alt milks, because he thought them as rich people pretending to be intolerant, and it was some kind of pity revenge. But unfortunately (?) most of the time this applies: Never attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence. Probably shouldn't've watched so many Gordon Ramsay videos about what could go wrong in the kitchen in mismanaged restaurants..
kordlessagain 6y ago
My suggestion is to determine how your brain works, whether it is visual in nature, auditory or other. The mind is the last frontier of health and medical professionals frequently mis-diagnose. Don't accept your "bipolar" label until you understand yourself how your mind works. See https://www.newscientist.com/article/2083706-my-minds-eye-is-blind-so-whats-going-on-in-my-brain/ https://www.newscientist.com/article/2083706-my-minds-eye-is....
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- kayodelycaon 6y ago
  I am quite definitely bipolar. See: https://kayode.co/blog/4106/living-with-psychosis/ https://kayode.co/blog/4106/living-with-psychosis/

samsquire 6y ago

I would recommend praying for deliverance, even if you think it would not work.

edgyquant 6y ago

I also deal with bipolar but I actually attribute being able to work in startups to it. I mostly have up days so I can go 10 hours without losing interest a week and a half at a time. But this comes with the downside of having a handful of days a month where I legit couldn’t churn out a couple hours worth of work no matter how hard I try. Luckily the places I’ve worked don’t care too much as I can make up for it the next day in one of my super sprints. This isn’t good for my mental health in the long run, probably, but tbh I’d deal with it anyway so I don’t think I could handle a normal 9-5: when I was younger and I worked those types of jobs my down days would be depressing for sure I don’t know how I managed other than maybe it’s gotten worse with age.

mclam 6y ago
Your first sentence I resonated with. I think it can still work in the right circumstance. Think I've burnt out though. Not just of programming. It's kind of comforting to see BP on HN more so these days. Usually it feels lonely because people diagnosed I know aren't programmers. For me, I think it has gotten worse with age and presents new struggles. In regards to the article. I don't respond, or I mark no. It never seems worth it to announce it.
rvp-x 6y ago
this sounds really bad for you :( there's nothing wrong with not being productive sometimes. you shouldn't need like you need to "catch up" by doing insane amounts of work. This mentality totally screwed me over during university, and I feel like a lot of my mental stability right now comes from how my job place has guilt-free discussions about what we can finish in the remainder of the time until the deadline, without "oh we'll just work harder".
anon9001 6y ago
Heh, that sounds like how I manage to hold down a job with ADHD, except my "up days" are because I took stimulants. If I knew in college what I know now, I would have 100% had all the paperwork to be considered "disabled" by the government. I tried to do the right thing and emulate a successful adult life, but it's been a pretty miserable experience so far. At this point, after so many years in tech, there's no way I could convince the government that they should cover my health care and pay me a stipend because I'm so disabled that I can't work. There's not much else to do at this point besides push through to retirement, one day at a time.

hrktb 6y ago

There is such a bias towards regularity, I feel like an alien when trying to question why we should care. I had a coworker that might have been bipolar as well but didn’t really explicit it, and we felt we shouldn’t dig. In a week to week basis work was done. We were a team of 7 so someone being on or off at a given time had little impact, hell any member could be warped into another project for 3 days and come back later, nobody was dying, nobody really cared, we just re-shuffled tasks and go on with our life. But she had points ducked from her evaluations every quarter for not having a regular schedule, and submitting sick days without notice. Nothing else in our job was predictable (and we had no on call shift), but it was sacro-saint to have a regular presence, and my bosses looked personally attacked someone could not respect the set rythm. They were all smart people, but it was maddening. Sorry for the rant, but It still pisses me off years later.

tener 6y ago
There are all sorts of arbitrary requirements to behave in certain way as a proxy of achieving results. Unfortunately this is quite common as it makes the manager feel safe and in control if his subordinates achieve the results in the way she expects them to, but it raises the bar high for no benefit to the bottom line.
driverdan 6y ago
> submitting sick days without notice Who the hell knows when they're going to be sick? I've never heard of such a thing.
- faeyanpiraat 6y ago
  Well, if you get a common cold, then sometimes you can feel whether it is manageable, or starts getting worse. Then you'll have a whole working day, where you are functioning at like 50% capacity, and at least you can pass on your work which might block others to a colleague. In my experience most of the time this is the case. Reporting in sick in the morning all the time can be quite distruptive in some jobs. If I were in this situation I would look for a job where there is more flexibility in this regard. Or keep an up-to-date document where I list all the ongoing tasks and their statuses and next steps (this would probably add a lot of overhead though)

wayoutthere 6y ago

Also bipolar person here. I gravitated toward consulting because it allows me the freedom to make my own accommodations. I have actually worked for huge consulting companies and currently work for a mid-size one. I also don’t drink caffeine or alcohol on account of said bipolar. I don’t come out and say that I’m bipolar, but I do make it known that I have chronic mental health stuff that I need space to deal with sometimes. I also have hypomanic periods where I’m incredibly productive, and I think that helps smooth over relations with co-workers and bosses because when I’m good, I’m really good. When I’m bad I need space to sort it out and clear expectations of what I need to get done from a work standpoint. Consulting works well because you kind of manage your own time, work is delivered in teams (at least in my world,) and if you can manage your client relationships well it smooths over a lot of bumps. If you work for a good company that gives you space to be a flawed human, you can make it work. The pandemic has actually helped quite a lot; I no longer have pressure to go hang out with a bunch of people drinking when all I want to do is sleep. As long as I show up to meetings and communicate about what I can and can’t do it works out for me.

kayodelycaon 6y ago
For people that can do it, consulting would be a good solution. Unfortunately, it’s not something I can handle.

driverdan 6y ago

Have you tried looking for a better employer? The teams I've worked with wouldn't have had any problems accommodating you.

kayodelycaon 6y ago
Given I can’t manage a 40-hour work week to start with, looking for a job while I have a job isn’t doable. That said, I’m available if someone wants a senior rails dev. :)
- driverdan 6y ago
  I'll check my network and pass on your info if I hear of anything.
handoflixue 6y ago
Do you have any particular reason to believe that? I've worked lots of places that looked very accommodating on the surface, but that doesn't mean they handle things like bi-polar well. In particular, "obvious" disabilities like a wheelchair seem to get handled a lot better. Conversely, policy exceptions like a bi-polar person needing to take more sick days, seem to breed a lot of resentment in certain sorts of managers.
- driverdan 6y ago
  Because I've been in management in my past few companies and work to accommodate everyone. I find that remote work is especially amenable to accommodating disabilities and mental health.

faeyanpiraat 6y ago

I've seen someone bragging about giving normal milk to people asking for special milk as a barista in starbucks, it then blew up on social media, and he got fired? Maybe I'm just mixing up stuff I don't know. If I remember correctly the reasoning behind it was quite ugly; he couldn't stand people who drank those alt milks, because he thought them as rich people pretending to be intolerant, and it was some kind of pity revenge. But unfortunately (?) most of the time this applies: Never attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence. Probably shouldn't've watched so many Gordon Ramsay videos about what could go wrong in the kitchen in mismanaged restaurants..

kordlessagain 6y ago

My suggestion is to determine how your brain works, whether it is visual in nature, auditory or other. The mind is the last frontier of health and medical professionals frequently mis-diagnose. Don't accept your "bipolar" label until you understand yourself how your mind works. See https://www.newscientist.com/article/2083706-my-minds-eye-is-blind-so-whats-going-on-in-my-brain/ https://www.newscientist.com/article/2083706-my-minds-eye-is....

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
kayodelycaon 6y ago
I am quite definitely bipolar. See: https://kayode.co/blog/4106/living-with-psychosis/ https://kayode.co/blog/4106/living-with-psychosis/