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That does not go away, there's nothing stopping you from buying genuine parts from the manufacturer if you trust them more than the competition.

by koyote 6y ago

chrisseaton 6y ago
But having a system that accepts non-genuine parts leads to a more complicated system. Apple's system is simple. Android's system is more complicated because it has multiple app stores. I don't want that complexity.
- koyote 6y ago
  That's an interesting way of thinking which I've not really encountered outside of Soviet-style centrally controlled economy advocates and the like. Do you feel the same way about all other things in life where you are presented with a choice? Would you prefer there to only be a single grocery store you get your groceries from, for example?
  - chrisseaton 6y ago
    No I’m in favour of competition, but competition between simple clean focused products, not the Homer cars other people seem to want. If you want a different App Store then market a different phone don’t drag down the iPhone.
    - gambiting 6y ago
      I just don't understand. I really try hard to understand, but I physically can't I think. Let's say that hypothetically, there was another store present on iOS. Does that stop you(or anyone) from only ever using the Apple App Store?? On Android, there are several other stores available, yet I have never felt the need to use any of them - they exist, they have their own customers.....but....that's it. It's like if you already have one shop in your village, so you prevent others from opening even though literally nothing would force you to go to these other shops and you can still enjoy the original shop as much as you did before. Literally nothing changes in your life, but you want to prevent others from having a choice, even if you yourself don't appreciate the choice. That's mindboggling to me.
      - chrisseaton 6y ago
        Apple would have to do the work to modify their software to support multiple stores, and they’d have to support the code for that going forward. They’d be doing that instead of something else productive that I could use. So it’s a loss to me and other Apple users who appreciate the curated system at the moment. Your analogy is ‘prevent’ but really it’s ‘not want to do the work to enable’. See how that’s not the same thing? Instead of 'not preventing someone opening a new shop in the village' you're asking them to cut a hole in the side of their store so someone in a greasy food cart can connect up to it and sell smelly burgers with poor food hygiene standards in the middle of their boutique, and then maintain that hole going forward. They don't want to do that! Many of their customers don't want that! Those customers that do want it can go somewhere else, like Android!
        saagarjha 6y ago
        How much work do you really think that it would take them to remove the entitlement on the daemon that installs apps? I have heard that entire App Store frontend was maintained by like a single engineer until like iOS 8. The change would be fairly simple; the amount of time they spend on fighting these things both in court and with technological measure in the OS is many orders of magnitude more than this.
        chrisseaton 6y ago
        They think it’ll be worse. Many of their customers agree. If you don’t can’t you go elsewhere? Why impose on people happy minding their own business?
        gambiting 6y ago
        >>If you don’t can’t you go elsewhere? Why impose on people happy minding their own business? That's the same argument, word for word, that people used to defend businesses not serving coloured folk - after all, can't they just go elsewhere? And we as society decided no, they shouldn't have to go anywhere - if you run a business, you have to serve everyone, end of story. I think it's time to do the same for Apple - if you want to run an app platform, you have to allow choice. And if your choice is to stay with App Store and only install apps curated by apple - that's perfectly valid. No one is taking that away from you. Again, how exactly does that inconvenience you, personally? No one is forcing you to use these other stores, no one is imposing anything on you. They will just exist somewhere for people who want them. Again, I'm on Android but I don't feel like I'm losing anything by the mere existence of the Amazon App store - it's there if you want it, if you don't then that's cool. And yes, I absolutely think you are overexaggerating the technical difficulty behind allowing people to do this - all Apple needs to do it allow apps to install other apps from packages. It's hardly a groundbreaking architectural change, come on.

That does not go away, there's nothing stopping you from buying genuine parts from the manufacturer if you trust them more than the competition.

by koyote 6y ago

That does not go away, there's nothing stopping you from buying genuine parts from the manufacturer if you trust them more than the competition.

chrisseaton 6y ago

But having a system that accepts non-genuine parts leads to a more complicated system. Apple's system is simple. Android's system is more complicated because it has multiple app stores. I don't want that complexity.

koyote 6y ago
That's an interesting way of thinking which I've not really encountered outside of Soviet-style centrally controlled economy advocates and the like. Do you feel the same way about all other things in life where you are presented with a choice? Would you prefer there to only be a single grocery store you get your groceries from, for example?
- chrisseaton 6y ago
  No I’m in favour of competition, but competition between simple clean focused products, not the Homer cars other people seem to want. If you want a different App Store then market a different phone don’t drag down the iPhone.
  - gambiting 6y ago
    I just don't understand. I really try hard to understand, but I physically can't I think. Let's say that hypothetically, there was another store present on iOS. Does that stop you(or anyone) from only ever using the Apple App Store?? On Android, there are several other stores available, yet I have never felt the need to use any of them - they exist, they have their own customers.....but....that's it. It's like if you already have one shop in your village, so you prevent others from opening even though literally nothing would force you to go to these other shops and you can still enjoy the original shop as much as you did before. Literally nothing changes in your life, but you want to prevent others from having a choice, even if you yourself don't appreciate the choice. That's mindboggling to me.
    - chrisseaton 6y ago
      Apple would have to do the work to modify their software to support multiple stores, and they’d have to support the code for that going forward. They’d be doing that instead of something else productive that I could use. So it’s a loss to me and other Apple users who appreciate the curated system at the moment. Your analogy is ‘prevent’ but really it’s ‘not want to do the work to enable’. See how that’s not the same thing? Instead of 'not preventing someone opening a new shop in the village' you're asking them to cut a hole in the side of their store so someone in a greasy food cart can connect up to it and sell smelly burgers with poor food hygiene standards in the middle of their boutique, and then maintain that hole going forward. They don't want to do that! Many of their customers don't want that! Those customers that do want it can go somewhere else, like Android!
      - saagarjha 6y ago
        How much work do you really think that it would take them to remove the entitlement on the daemon that installs apps? I have heard that entire App Store frontend was maintained by like a single engineer until like iOS 8. The change would be fairly simple; the amount of time they spend on fighting these things both in court and with technological measure in the OS is many orders of magnitude more than this.
        chrisseaton 6y ago
        They think it’ll be worse. Many of their customers agree. If you don’t can’t you go elsewhere? Why impose on people happy minding their own business?
        gambiting 6y ago
        >>If you don’t can’t you go elsewhere? Why impose on people happy minding their own business? That's the same argument, word for word, that people used to defend businesses not serving coloured folk - after all, can't they just go elsewhere? And we as society decided no, they shouldn't have to go anywhere - if you run a business, you have to serve everyone, end of story. I think it's time to do the same for Apple - if you want to run an app platform, you have to allow choice. And if your choice is to stay with App Store and only install apps curated by apple - that's perfectly valid. No one is taking that away from you. Again, how exactly does that inconvenience you, personally? No one is forcing you to use these other stores, no one is imposing anything on you. They will just exist somewhere for people who want them. Again, I'm on Android but I don't feel like I'm losing anything by the mere existence of the Amazon App store - it's there if you want it, if you don't then that's cool. And yes, I absolutely think you are overexaggerating the technical difficulty behind allowing people to do this - all Apple needs to do it allow apps to install other apps from packages. It's hardly a groundbreaking architectural change, come on.