3 ms·

>Windows/IE literally wasted hundreds of millions of person hours by being leaky, insecure, virus-prone crap. You could - if you chose to - make quite a nice in

>Windows/IE literally wasted hundreds of millions of person hours by being leaky, insecure, virus-prone crap. You could - if you chose to - make quite a nice income out of sending out phishing emails on our open email system. Likewise for randomsware, only more so. And so on. And so your argument is that Microsoft should have forbidden anyone from using a different browser engine (like Apple does) to make things safer ? What if someone installed Chrome or Firefox - that could have leaks and then you would think less of the platform - right ?

iguy 6y ago
No. That wasn't the argument at all. It's that people aren't exactly stretching their imaginations to picture their phone ecosystem going to hell. They've all been there before, and have vivid memories of what they don't want. They are also not crazy to have different preferences for a phone and for a desktop. Just like you have different preferences when selecting a hotel room vs a house.
- reader_mode 6y ago
  The argument is nonsense because Apple decisions are not driven by security but are there to ensure they get a cut of every revenue stream on their platform. If this was just about security there would be a way to verify secure 3rd party payment processing methods - I trust Stripe as much as I trust Apple for example. And you wouldn't be forced to offer the same price on other platforms either. I don't mind personally I see the value they offer - they make products that are better overall for a large majority of consumers and their ecosystem just works for many use cases - it doesn't fit me particularly well but I see the value proposition. Pretending that these store policies are driven by security is nonsense, those kinds of arguments tick me off.
  - iguy 6y ago
    Who's pretending they are "driven by security"? Clearly Apple wants to make money. The only argument being made is that some customers choose the walled garden because they want a telephone, not a part-time job keeping the weeds at bay. As you say, that's (a component of) what they are selling, and they do it because it sells (long-term, in their estimation).
    - lern_too_spel 6y ago
      The number of customers who chose an iPhone because it only lets them buy apps from Apple is a tiny fraction of the number of people who bought the device as a fashion accessory. What a strange thing to want. It makes little sense to think that Apple is catering to the tiny former group instead of simply extracting as much money as it can out of the latter group.
  - edmundsauto 6y ago
    I don't think it's accurate or fair to ascribe motivations to Apple based on a relevant, yet arbitrary, line in the sand that you chose to draw.
- MereInterest 6y ago
  About a decade ago, I got an iPod Touch, on the basis that it would be a portable computer that I could hack around with. Instead I find that it was entirely locked down, and required permission to install any software. Heck, even the developers kit required a $100 license fee, which was outside of my hobbyist budget at the time. For my own device. The phone ecosystem has already gone to hell, and Apple paved the way there.
  - djxfade 6y ago
    You absolutely don't need to pay the $100 license fee to develop for iOS. That fee is just required for distribution
    - joking 6y ago
      and to receive push notifications...
      - saagarjha 6y ago
        And use certain APIs, like loading fonts…
        djxfade 6y ago
        You certainly are able to load fonts on a self signed app, don't know where you got that information from.
        saagarjha 6y ago
        We got a pull request from someone to enable the fonts entitlement, except they couldn't test it because it costed them money to do so. You can see so yourself here: https://help.apple.com/developer-account/#/dev21218dfd6 https://help.apple.com/developer-account/#/dev21218dfd6
        djxfade 6y ago
judge2020 6y ago
If Microsoft made the same decisions as Apple did with the XP release (including always running apps in a sandbox), then yes, you wouldn't have to worry about malware at all on Windows. Instead, we have a billion dollar antivirus industry.
- fortran77 6y ago
  Apple is hardly free of malware.
  - jachee 6y ago
    I haven't heard of any iOS worms. Got any sources on iOS-specific, in-the-wild malware?
    - fortran77 6y ago
      https://blog.malwarebytes.com/mac/2019/08/unprecedented-new-iphone-malware-discovered/#:~:text=Among%20other%20things%2C%20the%20iPhone,monitoring%20of%20the%20device%20location https://blog.malwarebytes.com/mac/2019/08/unprecedented-new-.... https://www.cnet.com/news/google-researcher-demonstrates-iphone-exploit-with-wi-fi-takeover/ https://www.cnet.com/news/google-researcher-demonstrates-iph...
      - judge2020 6y ago
        > Because of this, any device running iOS 12.1.4 is not only immune to these particular attacks, but it can’t be infected anymore either, due to the reboot when installing 12.1.4 (or later). iOS certainly has malware and vulnerabilities, like any software, but they end up patched pretty quickly. It's definitely not the malware landscape we had on Windows 2000-2015 (arguably when Windows Defender got good).

iguy 6y ago

No. That wasn't the argument at all. It's that people aren't exactly stretching their imaginations to picture their phone ecosystem going to hell. They've all been there before, and have vivid memories of what they don't want. They are also not crazy to have different preferences for a phone and for a desktop. Just like you have different preferences when selecting a hotel room vs a house.

reader_mode 6y ago
The argument is nonsense because Apple decisions are not driven by security but are there to ensure they get a cut of every revenue stream on their platform. If this was just about security there would be a way to verify secure 3rd party payment processing methods - I trust Stripe as much as I trust Apple for example. And you wouldn't be forced to offer the same price on other platforms either. I don't mind personally I see the value they offer - they make products that are better overall for a large majority of consumers and their ecosystem just works for many use cases - it doesn't fit me particularly well but I see the value proposition. Pretending that these store policies are driven by security is nonsense, those kinds of arguments tick me off.
- iguy 6y ago
  Who's pretending they are "driven by security"? Clearly Apple wants to make money. The only argument being made is that some customers choose the walled garden because they want a telephone, not a part-time job keeping the weeds at bay. As you say, that's (a component of) what they are selling, and they do it because it sells (long-term, in their estimation).
  - lern_too_spel 6y ago
    The number of customers who chose an iPhone because it only lets them buy apps from Apple is a tiny fraction of the number of people who bought the device as a fashion accessory. What a strange thing to want. It makes little sense to think that Apple is catering to the tiny former group instead of simply extracting as much money as it can out of the latter group.
- edmundsauto 6y ago
  I don't think it's accurate or fair to ascribe motivations to Apple based on a relevant, yet arbitrary, line in the sand that you chose to draw.
MereInterest 6y ago
About a decade ago, I got an iPod Touch, on the basis that it would be a portable computer that I could hack around with. Instead I find that it was entirely locked down, and required permission to install any software. Heck, even the developers kit required a $100 license fee, which was outside of my hobbyist budget at the time. For my own device. The phone ecosystem has already gone to hell, and Apple paved the way there.
- djxfade 6y ago
  You absolutely don't need to pay the $100 license fee to develop for iOS. That fee is just required for distribution
  - joking 6y ago
    and to receive push notifications...
    - saagarjha 6y ago
      And use certain APIs, like loading fonts…
      - djxfade 6y ago
        You certainly are able to load fonts on a self signed app, don't know where you got that information from.
        saagarjha 6y ago
        We got a pull request from someone to enable the fonts entitlement, except they couldn't test it because it costed them money to do so. You can see so yourself here: https://help.apple.com/developer-account/#/dev21218dfd6 https://help.apple.com/developer-account/#/dev21218dfd6
        djxfade 6y ago

judge2020 6y ago

If Microsoft made the same decisions as Apple did with the XP release (including always running apps in a sandbox), then yes, you wouldn't have to worry about malware at all on Windows. Instead, we have a billion dollar antivirus industry.

fortran77 6y ago
Apple is hardly free of malware.
- jachee 6y ago
  I haven't heard of any iOS worms. Got any sources on iOS-specific, in-the-wild malware?
  - fortran77 6y ago
    https://blog.malwarebytes.com/mac/2019/08/unprecedented-new-iphone-malware-discovered/#:~:text=Among%20other%20things%2C%20the%20iPhone,monitoring%20of%20the%20device%20location https://blog.malwarebytes.com/mac/2019/08/unprecedented-new-.... https://www.cnet.com/news/google-researcher-demonstrates-iphone-exploit-with-wi-fi-takeover/ https://www.cnet.com/news/google-researcher-demonstrates-iph...
    - judge2020 6y ago
      > Because of this, any device running iOS 12.1.4 is not only immune to these particular attacks, but it can’t be infected anymore either, due to the reboot when installing 12.1.4 (or later). iOS certainly has malware and vulnerabilities, like any software, but they end up patched pretty quickly. It's definitely not the malware landscape we had on Windows 2000-2015 (arguably when Windows Defender got good).