4 ms·

The biggest problem with capitalism? Not enough capitalists

15 points by aard 6y ago

sudosysgen 6y ago
This article seems to be making a case for workplace democracy. I think characterizing self-governing enterprises as capitalist is a contradiction in terms, but hey, if that's what it takes... I see workplace democracy as a pole in the axis of alternatives to capitalism. On one side, you have a market economy where private enterprise is dominant but governed by its own workers, and the other being the democratically planned economy. Both fit the definitions and frameworks for socialist post-capitalism economies. We've seen trials of the latter, but I'm very curious as to what the former at an economy scale would look like. It seems like a very promising mode of economic organization, that despite being very old in conception, didn't really get a fair shake outside of very short term experiments at scale.
- xyzzy123 6y ago
  It's always been super interesting to me that inside every capitalist enterprise is a command economy wanting to grow.
  - sudosysgen 6y ago
    It really is. Something also really interesting was the Sears experiment, where the company was restructured away from the internal command economy you described to something more like an inner market economy with interesting results. Beyond what I think about giving market socialism some solid experiments, I think it might also be worth it to redo some small scale experimentation and analysis on command economies done modernly and attempt to quantify the various tradeoffs and issues with it. There are just so many interesting and promising things in this sector that look ripe for possibly extremely impactful and disruptive research and experimentation.
    - season2episode3 6y ago
      Interesting reading about the Sears experiment (with an editorialized headline). https://www.versobooks.com/blogs/4385-failing-to-plan-how-ayn-rand-destroyed-sears https://www.versobooks.com/blogs/4385-failing-to-plan-how-ay...
- season2episode3 6y ago
  I'm hoping someone with experience working at a coop could chime in here... I'm curious what the workplace politics are like at coops where key decisions are made by vote of the employees, as opposed to the authoritarian capitalist style used by most private companies. How well do they work?
  - sudosysgen 6y ago
    I personally don't have much experience with them, though I would love to join/start one eventually, but Richard Wolff has some analysis of them.
- fuzzfactor 6y ago
  An organization can be capitalist without being employee owned or authoritarian. Likewise an organization can be authoritarian without being capitalist or employee owned. And a company can be employee owned without being democratic. Or can have relatively democratic decision making without any employee ownership. These are all independent variables.
  - sudosysgen 6y ago
    Not entirely. If a company is employee owned and democratically operated, then there is no more distinction between profit and wage labour, and there is no more class divide between worker and owner. Since the two are core components of capitalism, it cannot be called capitalist anymore. And so no, they are not entirely independent variables.
jokethrowaway 6y ago
Remove taxes and bureaucracy and you'll see small ownership and meritocracy going up. Remove corruptible figure of powers as well and the market will slowly digest and dismantle big and inefficient companies.

15 points by aard 6y ago

This article seems to be making a case for workplace democracy. I think characterizing self-governing enterprises as capitalist is a contradiction in terms, but hey, if that's what it takes... I see workplace democracy as a pole in the axis of alternatives to capitalism. On one side, you have a market economy where private enterprise is dominant but governed by its own workers, and the other being the democratically planned economy. Both fit the definitions and frameworks for socialist post-capitalism economies. We've seen trials of the latter, but I'm very curious as to what the former at an economy scale would look like. It seems like a very promising mode of economic organization, that despite being very old in conception, didn't really get a fair shake outside of very short term experiments at scale.

xyzzy123 6y ago
It's always been super interesting to me that inside every capitalist enterprise is a command economy wanting to grow.
- sudosysgen 6y ago
  It really is. Something also really interesting was the Sears experiment, where the company was restructured away from the internal command economy you described to something more like an inner market economy with interesting results. Beyond what I think about giving market socialism some solid experiments, I think it might also be worth it to redo some small scale experimentation and analysis on command economies done modernly and attempt to quantify the various tradeoffs and issues with it. There are just so many interesting and promising things in this sector that look ripe for possibly extremely impactful and disruptive research and experimentation.
  - season2episode3 6y ago
    Interesting reading about the Sears experiment (with an editorialized headline). https://www.versobooks.com/blogs/4385-failing-to-plan-how-ayn-rand-destroyed-sears https://www.versobooks.com/blogs/4385-failing-to-plan-how-ay...
season2episode3 6y ago
I'm hoping someone with experience working at a coop could chime in here... I'm curious what the workplace politics are like at coops where key decisions are made by vote of the employees, as opposed to the authoritarian capitalist style used by most private companies. How well do they work?
- sudosysgen 6y ago
  I personally don't have much experience with them, though I would love to join/start one eventually, but Richard Wolff has some analysis of them.
fuzzfactor 6y ago
An organization can be capitalist without being employee owned or authoritarian. Likewise an organization can be authoritarian without being capitalist or employee owned. And a company can be employee owned without being democratic. Or can have relatively democratic decision making without any employee ownership. These are all independent variables.
- sudosysgen 6y ago
  Not entirely. If a company is employee owned and democratically operated, then there is no more distinction between profit and wage labour, and there is no more class divide between worker and owner. Since the two are core components of capitalism, it cannot be called capitalist anymore. And so no, they are not entirely independent variables.

jokethrowaway 6y ago

Remove taxes and bureaucracy and you'll see small ownership and meritocracy going up. Remove corruptible figure of powers as well and the market will slowly digest and dismantle big and inefficient companies.