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I know folks love to hate on Apple for keeping iOS locked down. Some of those folks like to say it is anti-user or anti-customer. I respectfully disagree. As a

by nxc18 6y ago

I know folks love to hate on Apple for keeping iOS locked down. Some of those folks like to say it is anti-user or anti-customer. I respectfully disagree. As an iOS user who interacts with android devices daily (and used to be primarily an android user, Moto 360 watch and all), I really like that it’s locked down. Yes, there are things I can’t do, like run v8, or have a built-in IR blaster, or sell my attention. What’s more important to me is what hostile actors (Google, AT&T, Verizon) can’t do. My phone doesn’t get malware, it doesn’t show me notifications that can’t be dismissed (I don’t know how android users tolerate this), it doesn’t prevent me from removing apps like Facebook (also something android phones like to do), and it generally doesn’t let app developers get away with nonsense. If anything, my biggest concern with the state of iOS is that it isn’t strict enough with the larger players. From the the business side of things there are some self-owns on Apple’s part that I won’t go into. Tl;dr please stay the f* away from my iPhone, I chose it for all the reasons you hate it.

lwansbrough 6y ago
What aspect of Brave's model here was specifically anti-consumer? Instead of just being, say, anti-Apple-IAP.
- nxc18 6y ago
  In this particular case the harm isn’t obvious, but the benefit isn’t either. Safari and Firefox both have good options for blocking ads on iOS. The larger point is that the benefits of lots of garbage being filtered out are worth it even at the expense of niche capabilities, like IR blasters or selling my attention.
  - lwansbrough 6y ago
    Shouldn't that be up to the user, not Apple? Why shouldn't I be allowed to use my preferred browser w/ its features?
sadgrip 6y ago
I don't understand why you can't have the Apple controlled platform you want while I have the freedom to use the hardware I bought however I want. I really don't get why Apple won't let me opt out of this restrictive stuff you like so much on the phone I paid for.
- macintux 6y ago
  Because Apple knows what we all know: that as soon as you introduce a flag to turn off the nanny state, every company who wants to do something Apple doesn’t allow will tell their users to toggle that flag, and users will do what users do. Facebook, for example, could immediately take their app off the App Store and tell their users that in order to keep using it, they have to effectively jailbreak themselves. Whether that’s a good enough reason to disallow the existence of the switch is certainly something we’ll argue about until the end of time.
  - sadgrip 6y ago
    Right but that just sounds like a user having control over their hardware. Who knows maybe some of them will like it.
- deeeeplearning 6y ago
  So don't buy their hardware? It's not a secret it's locked down so why are you giving them money and then complaining?
  - sadgrip 6y ago
    Yeah I'm not talking about the world I currently live in. I'm talking about what I would like. I'm not going to buy a new iphone of course but that doesn't mean I wouldn't like to under different circumstances. Obviously they don't have to care about that.
camhart 6y ago
In the decade that I've had an android phone (and my father, and my wife), I've not once encountered: * malware * a notification that can't be dismissed that doesn't justify not being able to be dismissed * bundleware can exist on android, especially on budget phones. Pay the price you pay for an iPhone and this generally is no longer an issue. On the off chance there is something bundled, you can disable system installed apps, which removes them visually from everything except for deep within the settings app. * The only time I've encountered what I would consider "nonsense" is on shared testing devices. Sometimes they have all sorts of strange apps installed that cause the phones to behave strangely. I've never ran into this myself on an actual device used by someone. However I also don't install a bunch of random apps. And neither does anyone in my family it seems (at least that I'm aware of--and I'm the go to for technical issues within my extended family). So my opinion here is limited. I'd also add that Apple's rules create "nonsense" in some peoples opinions (app developers for one, but also iPhone owners who can't install what they want, or can't pay the way they want to pay). For what it's worth, I also interact with iPhone(s) on a daily basis (for testing software primarily).
- deeeeplearning 6y ago
  > bundleware can exist on android, especially on budget phones. Have you bought a Samsung in the past 5 years? Literally filled to the brim with "Bundleware" and these are considered the top tier Android phones so I don't know what your are talking about. It's extremely pervasive.
- nxc18 6y ago
  Yeah, IDK, just looking at the Samsung Galaxy Note 10 in front of me, I see: * Two notifications that can't be hidden, one about a postponed update, the other about a system configuration update it probably should handle on its own. * Another unhidable notification about there not being a SIM card, but that is niche enough I can't feel bothered about it. * Pre-installed apps I can't remove: Netflix, Facebook, Samsung Notes, OneDrive, YouTube, Duo, Maps, GMail, Bixby. This phone cost $300 more than my iPhone new I'm glad you've never experienced malware. Unfortunately, it is common enough on Play and other stores that users have to worry about antivirus: https://www.pcmag.com/picks/the-best-android-antivirus-apps https://www.pcmag.com/picks/the-best-android-antivirus-apps Even if users don't seek it out, many phones come with it preinstalled.
mthoms 6y ago
> Tl;dr please stay the f* away from my iPhone, I chose it for all the reasons you hate it. How would my ability to use another App Store or payment provider affect your ability to continue using Apples'?
- daing 6y ago
  Because you're a dumb fuck.

by nxc18 6y ago

lwansbrough 6y ago

What aspect of Brave's model here was specifically anti-consumer? Instead of just being, say, anti-Apple-IAP.

nxc18 6y ago
In this particular case the harm isn’t obvious, but the benefit isn’t either. Safari and Firefox both have good options for blocking ads on iOS. The larger point is that the benefits of lots of garbage being filtered out are worth it even at the expense of niche capabilities, like IR blasters or selling my attention.
- lwansbrough 6y ago
  Shouldn't that be up to the user, not Apple? Why shouldn't I be allowed to use my preferred browser w/ its features?

sadgrip 6y ago

I don't understand why you can't have the Apple controlled platform you want while I have the freedom to use the hardware I bought however I want. I really don't get why Apple won't let me opt out of this restrictive stuff you like so much on the phone I paid for.

macintux 6y ago
Because Apple knows what we all know: that as soon as you introduce a flag to turn off the nanny state, every company who wants to do something Apple doesn’t allow will tell their users to toggle that flag, and users will do what users do. Facebook, for example, could immediately take their app off the App Store and tell their users that in order to keep using it, they have to effectively jailbreak themselves. Whether that’s a good enough reason to disallow the existence of the switch is certainly something we’ll argue about until the end of time.
- sadgrip 6y ago
  Right but that just sounds like a user having control over their hardware. Who knows maybe some of them will like it.
deeeeplearning 6y ago
So don't buy their hardware? It's not a secret it's locked down so why are you giving them money and then complaining?
- sadgrip 6y ago
  Yeah I'm not talking about the world I currently live in. I'm talking about what I would like. I'm not going to buy a new iphone of course but that doesn't mean I wouldn't like to under different circumstances. Obviously they don't have to care about that.

camhart 6y ago

In the decade that I've had an android phone (and my father, and my wife), I've not once encountered: * malware * a notification that can't be dismissed that doesn't justify not being able to be dismissed * bundleware can exist on android, especially on budget phones. Pay the price you pay for an iPhone and this generally is no longer an issue. On the off chance there is something bundled, you can disable system installed apps, which removes them visually from everything except for deep within the settings app. * The only time I've encountered what I would consider "nonsense" is on shared testing devices. Sometimes they have all sorts of strange apps installed that cause the phones to behave strangely. I've never ran into this myself on an actual device used by someone. However I also don't install a bunch of random apps. And neither does anyone in my family it seems (at least that I'm aware of--and I'm the go to for technical issues within my extended family). So my opinion here is limited. I'd also add that Apple's rules create "nonsense" in some peoples opinions (app developers for one, but also iPhone owners who can't install what they want, or can't pay the way they want to pay). For what it's worth, I also interact with iPhone(s) on a daily basis (for testing software primarily).

deeeeplearning 6y ago
> bundleware can exist on android, especially on budget phones. Have you bought a Samsung in the past 5 years? Literally filled to the brim with "Bundleware" and these are considered the top tier Android phones so I don't know what your are talking about. It's extremely pervasive.
nxc18 6y ago
Yeah, IDK, just looking at the Samsung Galaxy Note 10 in front of me, I see: * Two notifications that can't be hidden, one about a postponed update, the other about a system configuration update it probably should handle on its own. * Another unhidable notification about there not being a SIM card, but that is niche enough I can't feel bothered about it. * Pre-installed apps I can't remove: Netflix, Facebook, Samsung Notes, OneDrive, YouTube, Duo, Maps, GMail, Bixby. This phone cost $300 more than my iPhone new I'm glad you've never experienced malware. Unfortunately, it is common enough on Play and other stores that users have to worry about antivirus: https://www.pcmag.com/picks/the-best-android-antivirus-apps https://www.pcmag.com/picks/the-best-android-antivirus-apps Even if users don't seek it out, many phones come with it preinstalled.

mthoms 6y ago

> Tl;dr please stay the f* away from my iPhone, I chose it for all the reasons you hate it. How would my ability to use another App Store or payment provider affect your ability to continue using Apples'?

daing 6y ago
Because you're a dumb fuck.