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>What was special about the Airbnbs was how earnest they were. So earnest. Their inability to police fraudulent/scam listings. It comes from a place of earnest

>What was special about the Airbnbs was how earnest they were. So earnest. Their inability to police fraudulent/scam listings. It comes from a place of earnest conviction. Their blatant attempts to circumvent and disregard local laws about illegal hotel listings. It comes from a place of earnest conviction. Why is there always a need to sugarcoat these bio pieces like they're describing somebody in line for canonization? The Doordash piece was even worse.

conception 6y ago
Because this is ycombinator marketing.
TigeriusKirk 6y ago
It's not a bio piece. It's a post specifically focused on why someone thinks a certain team succeeded. Given that, of course it's about positive traits.
- MereInterest 6y ago
  Why? I think AirBnb, Uber, and DoorDash have all succeeded primarily due to flaunting of social norms and fair employment regulations, treating them as externalities to be exploited, rather than social fabric that we can rely on. Why would a piece about why they succeeded necessarily forgo these critical parts to their immorally obtained success?
  - adlpz 6y ago
    Illegally, "allegally", of dubious concordance with the spirit of the law, maybe. But immorally? That is very much a matter of opinion don't you think?
    - MereInterest 6y ago
      Damn right it's a matter of opinion. My opinion is that the deliberate abuse and exploitation of social niceties is immoral. What I don't see is how it being an opinion does anything to invalidate it, nor how pointing it out is an opinion is expected to convince me against holding it. Edit: Perhaps I am a bit harsh here. I am frustrated overall at the general idea that nothing can ever be condemned, and morals may not be discussed, merely because they include a subjective value judgment. Those value judgments occur at all times, and are what give importance to the facts.
      - adlpz 6y ago
        I totally agree that it's perfectly fine to discuss morals, even condemn them, it's a valid conversation and it should be explored. Your point about the morality of their actions is totally valid in itself. A valid and well supported opinion. However what I refer to is that you question how a piece like this article can go ahead and not point out the immortality of their ways. And I really think that from their business-centered, libertarian point of view, there just isn't any immortality here. In their opinion, they did things right. Therefore they could not point it out.
  - TigeriusKirk 6y ago
    Fair enough, I need to be more specific about what I believe is the point of the piece. It's intended to give would-be entrepreneurs insight into traits of previously successful entrepreneurs. In particular traits the writer believes should be emulated. Those will naturally be positive traits, because the entire point of the piece is to give readers something to aim for.
  - mikeg8 6y ago
    I don't think Airbnb is in the same boat as the latter two in regards to fair employment regulations. > Flaunting social norms In the case of Airbnb, what was the social norm? Staying in a hotel? Wouldn't all disruption be flaunting social norms?? I think applying your own moral standards to a company in this way can get precarious. Beside the outlier cases of trashed rentals or someone left in the cold (which is harmful, but again, a very small percentage of their volume), the majority or Airbnb hosts and guests seem to find value in their service and choose to use it. How immoral is that, in reality?
    - learc83 6y ago
      > In the case of Airbnb, what was the social norm? Staying in a hotel? The social norm is the expectation that your neighbors won’t be running a hotel next door.
    - trhway 6y ago
      seems to be pretty sleazy: https://www.quora.com/Did-Airbnb-get-sued-for-running-a-robot-on-craigslist-Where-are-they-breaking-the-law-anyways https://www.quora.com/Did-Airbnb-get-sued-for-running-a-robo... "What Airbnb did in 2010 and 2011 was to use a bot to spambot to email who had posted short term vacation rental ads on Craigslist. The emails claimed to be from women who liked their listings, suggesting that they try Airbnb. "
      - blackrock 6y ago
        Interesting. Craigslist uses an anonymous email routing mechanism, in order to allow people to contact the ad poster. And vice versa. Does Craigslist actively monitor the messages being passed through? Edit: Why did I get downvoted? It was a legitimate question. It may have deviated from the article subject, but that’s how conversations flow, and how you learn of new things.
    - CJefferson 6y ago
      The hosts and guests find value. The neighbors of the hosts often have a miserable time, which is why usually zoning laws stop people running hotels wherever they like.
dheera 6y ago
Yeah. I also recently had an Airbnb host write a negative guest review with a bunch of false information. First time this happened. Airbnb refuses to remove it, refuses to let me edit my response, and there is no concept of due process. Leaves a bad taste in my mouth to ever use Airbnb again.
renewiltord 6y ago
What, really, do you think makes people act a certain way? Do you think they're like "I sit on a throne of dead hotelier skulls! What is will be no more! Now is the season of EVIL!"? Or do you think they earnestly think "Reducing the barrier to short-term rentals will make many people happy and make us probably very wealthy". Come on, dude.
- wavefunction 6y ago
  Personally, I think AirBnB is earnestly happy to cash in on the situation where the apartment next to mine that I'm paying $1600 a month for is rented out to people who are there to loudly party until 6AM on a Wednesday night-Thursday morning while I have to get up and go to work and try to have some semblance of an intellect available. Fortunately I've since purchased a modest house in a quiet neighborhood but gorram!
- freewilly1040 6y ago
  People are really good at rationalizing things that make them rich. A founder’s earnest feelings about their business’s externalities should never be taken at face value.
  - renewiltord 6y ago
    > A founder’s earnest feelings about their business’s externalities should never be taken at face value. Maybe that's your strategy to VC investing. I don't think it's particularly good to apply a zero or negative coefficient to this trait. But that's okay, the market shall speak on this one.
    - cambalache 6y ago
      The market only cares about money.
      - renewiltord 6y ago
        Yes, exactly. And determining leading indicators of what will make money is hard. I think smart people will put non-zero positive coefficients on the earnestness that YC is talking about here.
treis 6y ago
>So earnest. Their inability to police fraudulent/scam listings. It comes from a place of earnest conviction. Their blatant attempts to circumvent and disregard local laws about illegal hotel listings. It comes from a place of earnest conviction. I don't think that's really fair. AirBnB as originally conceived is something that would make the world better for a lot of people. Something you can be proud of building. What it's turned into is far more of a mixed bag, of course, but that doesn't change the earnestness of how it began.
- iuguy 6y ago
  > AirBnB as originally conceived is something that would make the world better for a lot of people. Like Couchsurfing before AirBNB destroyed it.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

conception 6y ago

Because this is ycombinator marketing.

TigeriusKirk 6y ago

It's not a bio piece. It's a post specifically focused on why someone thinks a certain team succeeded. Given that, of course it's about positive traits.

MereInterest 6y ago
Why? I think AirBnb, Uber, and DoorDash have all succeeded primarily due to flaunting of social norms and fair employment regulations, treating them as externalities to be exploited, rather than social fabric that we can rely on. Why would a piece about why they succeeded necessarily forgo these critical parts to their immorally obtained success?
- adlpz 6y ago
  Illegally, "allegally", of dubious concordance with the spirit of the law, maybe. But immorally? That is very much a matter of opinion don't you think?
  - MereInterest 6y ago
    Damn right it's a matter of opinion. My opinion is that the deliberate abuse and exploitation of social niceties is immoral. What I don't see is how it being an opinion does anything to invalidate it, nor how pointing it out is an opinion is expected to convince me against holding it. Edit: Perhaps I am a bit harsh here. I am frustrated overall at the general idea that nothing can ever be condemned, and morals may not be discussed, merely because they include a subjective value judgment. Those value judgments occur at all times, and are what give importance to the facts.
    - adlpz 6y ago
      I totally agree that it's perfectly fine to discuss morals, even condemn them, it's a valid conversation and it should be explored. Your point about the morality of their actions is totally valid in itself. A valid and well supported opinion. However what I refer to is that you question how a piece like this article can go ahead and not point out the immortality of their ways. And I really think that from their business-centered, libertarian point of view, there just isn't any immortality here. In their opinion, they did things right. Therefore they could not point it out.
- TigeriusKirk 6y ago
  Fair enough, I need to be more specific about what I believe is the point of the piece. It's intended to give would-be entrepreneurs insight into traits of previously successful entrepreneurs. In particular traits the writer believes should be emulated. Those will naturally be positive traits, because the entire point of the piece is to give readers something to aim for.
- mikeg8 6y ago
  I don't think Airbnb is in the same boat as the latter two in regards to fair employment regulations. > Flaunting social norms In the case of Airbnb, what was the social norm? Staying in a hotel? Wouldn't all disruption be flaunting social norms?? I think applying your own moral standards to a company in this way can get precarious. Beside the outlier cases of trashed rentals or someone left in the cold (which is harmful, but again, a very small percentage of their volume), the majority or Airbnb hosts and guests seem to find value in their service and choose to use it. How immoral is that, in reality?
  - learc83 6y ago
    > In the case of Airbnb, what was the social norm? Staying in a hotel? The social norm is the expectation that your neighbors won’t be running a hotel next door.
  - trhway 6y ago
    seems to be pretty sleazy: https://www.quora.com/Did-Airbnb-get-sued-for-running-a-robot-on-craigslist-Where-are-they-breaking-the-law-anyways https://www.quora.com/Did-Airbnb-get-sued-for-running-a-robo... "What Airbnb did in 2010 and 2011 was to use a bot to spambot to email who had posted short term vacation rental ads on Craigslist. The emails claimed to be from women who liked their listings, suggesting that they try Airbnb. "
    - blackrock 6y ago
      Interesting. Craigslist uses an anonymous email routing mechanism, in order to allow people to contact the ad poster. And vice versa. Does Craigslist actively monitor the messages being passed through? Edit: Why did I get downvoted? It was a legitimate question. It may have deviated from the article subject, but that’s how conversations flow, and how you learn of new things.
  - CJefferson 6y ago
    The hosts and guests find value. The neighbors of the hosts often have a miserable time, which is why usually zoning laws stop people running hotels wherever they like.

dheera 6y ago

Yeah. I also recently had an Airbnb host write a negative guest review with a bunch of false information. First time this happened. Airbnb refuses to remove it, refuses to let me edit my response, and there is no concept of due process. Leaves a bad taste in my mouth to ever use Airbnb again.

renewiltord 6y ago

What, really, do you think makes people act a certain way? Do you think they're like "I sit on a throne of dead hotelier skulls! What is will be no more! Now is the season of EVIL!"? Or do you think they earnestly think "Reducing the barrier to short-term rentals will make many people happy and make us probably very wealthy". Come on, dude.

wavefunction 6y ago
Personally, I think AirBnB is earnestly happy to cash in on the situation where the apartment next to mine that I'm paying $1600 a month for is rented out to people who are there to loudly party until 6AM on a Wednesday night-Thursday morning while I have to get up and go to work and try to have some semblance of an intellect available. Fortunately I've since purchased a modest house in a quiet neighborhood but gorram!
freewilly1040 6y ago
People are really good at rationalizing things that make them rich. A founder’s earnest feelings about their business’s externalities should never be taken at face value.
- renewiltord 6y ago
  > A founder’s earnest feelings about their business’s externalities should never be taken at face value. Maybe that's your strategy to VC investing. I don't think it's particularly good to apply a zero or negative coefficient to this trait. But that's okay, the market shall speak on this one.
  - cambalache 6y ago
    The market only cares about money.
    - renewiltord 6y ago
      Yes, exactly. And determining leading indicators of what will make money is hard. I think smart people will put non-zero positive coefficients on the earnestness that YC is talking about here.

treis 6y ago

>So earnest. Their inability to police fraudulent/scam listings. It comes from a place of earnest conviction. Their blatant attempts to circumvent and disregard local laws about illegal hotel listings. It comes from a place of earnest conviction. I don't think that's really fair. AirBnB as originally conceived is something that would make the world better for a lot of people. Something you can be proud of building. What it's turned into is far more of a mixed bag, of course, but that doesn't change the earnestness of how it began.

iuguy 6y ago
> AirBnB as originally conceived is something that would make the world better for a lot of people. Like Couchsurfing before AirBNB destroyed it.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]