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Consider the quote: "Give me liberty or give me death" Liberty winning may seem counterintuitive but not everyone sees it that way. Most wars have been fought

Consider the quote: "Give me liberty or give me death" Liberty winning may seem counterintuitive but not everyone sees it that way. Most wars have been fought by people that value their form of liberty over death.

krapp 6y ago
>Most wars have been fought by people that value their form of liberty over death. Most wars have been fought by conscripts, slaves or soldiers who otherwise only wanted to come back home alive, pawns in chess games played with human lives by the elite powers. Even the American Revolution was for the most part a tax revolt by the wealthy against the British Crown. And none of those wars have been against the tyranny of medicine and science. Benjamin Franklin, the man responsible for the famous (and almost universally misapplied) quote about those who trade a little freedom for security deserving neither, lost his son to one of the many smallpox outbreaks in the early US. In his autobiography, he mentions bitterly regretting not having given his son the smallpox vaccine[0]. He did not once declare that affording his son the "liberty" of dying from smallpox was worth the sacrifice versus the "temporary safety" of vaccination - and this was during a time when vaccination was new, still controversial, and much less safe than now. Rather, he became a passionate advocate for vaccination and public health. So believe what you like, but the Founding Fathers very likely would not have been on the side of the anti-maskers and anti-vaxxers or their form of liberty. [0]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2653186/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2653186/
- aeternum 6y ago
  >Most wars have been fought by conscripts, slaves or soldiers who otherwise only wanted to come back home alive I don't think you've spent much time with US military types if you believe this to be the case. Willingness to die for a country or cause was even more prevalent in the past than it is now. I agree the Founding Fathers would very likely not have been on the side of anti-maskers and anti-vaxxers, they were generally intellectual and on the side of science. However I'm not so sure about the lockdowns, they would almost certainly oppose giving the federal gov. the power to issue a lockdown but may have been okay with local lockdowns.
  - krapp 6y ago
    >However I'm not so sure about the lockdowns, they would almost certainly oppose giving the federal gov. the power to issue a lockdown but may have been okay with local lockdowns. They would probably be split on that, but also would probably agree that lockdowns in some form were not unreasonable, so long as they were temporary and based on sound science.

krapp 6y ago

>Most wars have been fought by people that value their form of liberty over death. Most wars have been fought by conscripts, slaves or soldiers who otherwise only wanted to come back home alive, pawns in chess games played with human lives by the elite powers. Even the American Revolution was for the most part a tax revolt by the wealthy against the British Crown. And none of those wars have been against the tyranny of medicine and science. Benjamin Franklin, the man responsible for the famous (and almost universally misapplied) quote about those who trade a little freedom for security deserving neither, lost his son to one of the many smallpox outbreaks in the early US. In his autobiography, he mentions bitterly regretting not having given his son the smallpox vaccine[0]. He did not once declare that affording his son the "liberty" of dying from smallpox was worth the sacrifice versus the "temporary safety" of vaccination - and this was during a time when vaccination was new, still controversial, and much less safe than now. Rather, he became a passionate advocate for vaccination and public health. So believe what you like, but the Founding Fathers very likely would not have been on the side of the anti-maskers and anti-vaxxers or their form of liberty. [0]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2653186/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2653186/

aeternum 6y ago
>Most wars have been fought by conscripts, slaves or soldiers who otherwise only wanted to come back home alive I don't think you've spent much time with US military types if you believe this to be the case. Willingness to die for a country or cause was even more prevalent in the past than it is now. I agree the Founding Fathers would very likely not have been on the side of anti-maskers and anti-vaxxers, they were generally intellectual and on the side of science. However I'm not so sure about the lockdowns, they would almost certainly oppose giving the federal gov. the power to issue a lockdown but may have been okay with local lockdowns.
- krapp 6y ago
  >However I'm not so sure about the lockdowns, they would almost certainly oppose giving the federal gov. the power to issue a lockdown but may have been okay with local lockdowns. They would probably be split on that, but also would probably agree that lockdowns in some form were not unreasonable, so long as they were temporary and based on sound science.