8 ms·

I love these stories also but I am genuinely curious how you were able to work 8 hours a day on it and also work your regular job. I assume you don't work a ful

I love these stories also but I am genuinely curious how you were able to work 8 hours a day on it and also work your regular job. I assume you don't work a full time job, otherwise it seems unhealthy. I put a lot of time into my side projects but that is mostly the whole saturday and sunday, but even then I obviously don't feel so well rested on monday.

frankbyte 6y ago
There's 24 hours in a day. Read Bezos or Musk's or anybody stories and they'll tell you they worked 20-23 hours a day. It's fucking crazy with some people, but that's what it takes to get ahead of the competition. Edit: Please note that I'm not advocating that anybody should do this, but just be aware that a lot of people are setting that level for themselves and in some cases for their subordinates.
- tinco 6y ago
  Pulling an all nighter every once in a while, or even a couple consecutive days during crunch time is not the same as working 20 hours per day. So unless you've got a specific quote from either of them I call bullshit. That said, Bill Gates definitely said he and some of his crew were working 16 hour days delivering their first DOS release. Point is, you might work some intense stretches, and doing that shows your passion and might land give you an edge when you need it. But you don't need to go insane. If you work 8 hours day job, don't spend hours in commute, you can be perfectly healthy spending 2 hours of your night time each day working a side gig.
  - frankbyte 6y ago
    “There were times when, some weeks ... I haven’t counted exactly, but I would just sort of sleep for a few hours, work, sleep for a few hours, work, seven days a week. Some of those days must have been 120 hours or something nutty.” Now, Musk said he is “down to 80 or 90” hours of work per week and “it’s pretty manageable.” https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/05/elon-musk-on-working-120-hours-a-week-youll-go-bonkers.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/05/elon-musk-on-working-120-hou... That's the quickest I could find. But yeah, I suppose 20-23h constantly long-term would not be doable. Point is though that many people can and do work even long-term the equavalent of 2 "full-time jobs".
- Nkuna 6y ago
  Quite naive of you to believe Musk or Bezos worked 23 hour workdays. Even if that was remotely true, everything bears consequence. It might have "worked", but the downsides of this toxic work ethic are bound to present themselves, in the present or future. Never mind working such hours does not guarantee success. Hell, it only about guarantees poor relations and health with any chance of success a very distant second. So at best you're successful with shit relationships or fail with the same prospects? Dunno 'bout you, but I don't play no game I can't win!
  - frankbyte 6y ago
    Well it's presented them with billionaire fortunes. That's a fact. I think it's fine for entrepreneurs like them to work however much they want, but it's not cool to put that on employees, especially if they don't have any ownership in the company. I don't buy the theory about poor relationships and long hours. I could see it going either way, especially if one was single and would otherwise spend their time at home watching tv or whatever.
    - Dudeman112 6y ago
      How do you keep non poor relationships if you are just transitioning between work/sleep states? You can't keep relationships if the time spent on a relationship tends to 0.
    - nearmint 6y ago
      Why do people evangelize every little comment of a billionaire? He's also human, he can tell me what he wants, I'll believe it when I see it.
- blackrock 6y ago
  Maybe it’s time that society reduces full time work hours from 40 hours per week, to 24 hours per week. 6 hours per day, 4 days per week. 24 hours per week total. Or 8 hours per day, and 3 days per week. Then you have a 4 day weekend. Anything more, is regarded as overtime. Then those that do want to get ahead, can work the remaining 16 hours on a separate job. Software automation, mechanization, and robotics, have reduced the need for manual drudgery. And farms are highly mechanized to mass produce raw foodstuffs. The corporations should be competing against themselves, to work for us, the citizens, that makes their profits possible. Instead of just competing to take a bigger piece of the pie, and to hoard it all for themselves. It’s time that we as a society, begin to think differently.
  - langitbiru 6y ago
    I created yet another part-time jobs website to support that idealism. https://parttime.careers https://parttime.careers I think that the part-time jobs culture today is like the remote jobs culture 15 years ago.
    - blackrock 6y ago
      Very nice!
  - djeiasbsbo 6y ago
    I think what we need is another free day, preferrably on wednesday. I think that might improve everyones performance. Too bad that that can never happen on a large scale due to historical/religious reasons.
    - blackrock 6y ago
      Friday is better. So you can get a 3 day weekend. This would also help boost local or nearby tourism. It’ll give people an extra day to travel.
djaychela 6y ago
A friend of mine (who's nearly 50) put in over 2000 hours into playing Destiny one year. That's about the same as a full time job. He has a wife and two kids, and a very full time job. Doing that much work on a side gig is totally possible if you want to do it and have the right disposition.
- jmcgough 6y ago
  Granted, 2000 hours is a lot, but most humans need at least some time to unwind and relax in order to maintain high levels of productivity.
  - bryanrasmussen 6y ago
    I think it sounds like he spent 2000 hours unwinding and relaxing?
- marmaduke 6y ago
  That’s over 5 hours a day. If you have wife and kids and a job then either you, your job or your family is missing out.
- djeiasbsbo 6y ago
  Okay, but how healthy is it really? Maybe I am projecting my issues onto other people but I often get less sleep when I invest a lot of time into my side projects as well as my job.
ramraj07 6y ago
The reality is that some people can just do more per day than others. It's very common in academia that many professors spend their entire lifetime in 60-80hr work weeks their entire life. I remember going to conferences,especially the really small ones, the professors and students would spend all day listening to extremely draining lectures; this one particular conference started at 8.30 am, went till 1 pm, you get a few hours break, and then it goes till 9 pm. I'd go back to my room in the noon time to take a nap, and in the evening maybe go to the bar for a small bit to get a drink and go back to the room to get ready for the next day, but the majority of professors would spend most of the midday break meeting each other, and also continue socializing in the bar fairly late into night, and they'll still come back the next day as if this is a regular day. I had a talk with my professor on how they're doing it and his response was just "you just have to train yourself to do it and get used to it." Probably one of the main reasons why I chose not to continue down that path!
- jll29 6y ago
  The trick is that if coding is your passion it doesn't feel like work, more like oxygen...
  - rubicon33 6y ago
    Unfortunately for some of us, passions fade. I still love coding, but it's not the kind of thing I'm likely to enjoy spending 16 hours a day doing anymore. I've been there, done that, seen it all (server, web, mobile, firmware, games). It's routine now, but not something I can lose myself into like I used to be able to. I get bored far faster.
    - halfdan 6y ago
      It's interesting. I'm still in a state where I enjoy it most of the time and I could certainly spend an entire day coding... But I'm running super low on good ideas. Ideas used to pop into mind all the time, now it's like once a year and I quickly abandon it.
ed_elliott_asc 6y ago
I could do it if I didn’t have a family, I used to commute 2 hours each way so considering getting a part time job for the commute time I am now at home for - if it wouldn’t cause a divorce I’d get two jobs or work on a side project for that time. You need to take time off though at weekends etc if you are doing it longer term. (Note this isn’t a recommendation) Also note that I don’t care for tv or gaming so don’t have those time black holes.
- gigamick 6y ago
  So I'm not wanting to get into what appears to be a growing argument. But I have a young family and an intense day job. I still managed to build SongBox. I just love building things. I don't do social media, don't watch shitty tv. I just like to build.
  - ed_elliott_asc 6y ago
    I think the key is: If you are working 60 hours a week for a job paying 40 hours then it is horrible. If you work 40 hours and spend 20 hours a week doing your own thing, it is hard work but doable. Long term no one should work 60 hours a week.
an_opabinia 6y ago
> but I am genuinely curious how you were able to work 8 hours a day on it and also work your regular job Hacker News repeatedly rediscovers that there is no point in putting in more than the bare minimum at typical jobs over and over again. Some people pour the gained time into leetcode and succeed. Some pour it into stuff they're excited about. Some into their families. Some pour it into being at the right place at the right time. Hardly anyone has ever succeeded by pouring it into their jobs.
- marmaduke 6y ago
  > Hardly anyone has ever succeeded by pouring it into their jobs This might be the most relevant part of the discussion
  - an_opabinia 6y ago
    It certainly is a conundrum for startups, where after the founders, you're asking someone to commit career suicide by working hard for you.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - thorough 6y ago
      I think if you’ve decided that there is something wrong with the employer/employee relationship where hundreds spend their professional life working at someone else’s company, pushing ahead that person’s vision, and fulfilling that person’s goals, then you shouldn’t turn around and play an integral role in the same game you once despised, all because it’s much easier to succeed in business if you have a bunch of people devoting their working lives to your vision. I don’t know how to escape that model at a wider scale, exactly, but if I were worth millions of dollars, I think I’d have the economic luxury to invest some time to figure out how.
  - notsureaboutpg 6y ago
    It's also untrue. Many execs at companies moved up the ranks there and they probably did it the same way, by pouring their extra time into their jobs.
bird_monster 6y ago
> I am genuinely curious how you were able to work 8 hours a day on it and also work your regular job. Fulltime jobs usually aren't fulltime in that they take all of your available thinking capacity, nor do they quench a person's curiosity or interest. More often, fulltime jobs (especially in tech) are ~40% work, 60% absolute garbage timewasting. Sitting through meetings that don't need to happen, to satisfy an insecurity or requirement that someone above has, without actually solving any real problems or creating any change. Some people do exactly as much is required at their actual job (so a generous 40% of their available capacity) and then spend their nights, weekends and freetime pouring themselves into other things. Startups, personal projects, hobbies, families, etc. Fulltime jobs are almost never rewarding or exciting. A startup may start exciting/fulfilling, but eventually corporate garbage sets in and you're on the same treadmill of meetings to talk about prospective work/how much work there is, fitting actual fulfillment of tasks in between.
markdown 6y ago
Be young, be single, live with your parents or have a high-enough paying job that you don't have to cook every meal. Easy!
- djeiasbsbo 6y ago
  All of that applies to me... Again, that definitely gives me the time to do so on weekends but during a work week it would just be unhealthy. I can't even fathom staring at a screen even longer and I already get teary eyed every day. But I am provably projecting my issues onto other people. Maybe they have less stress/pressure at their jobs. I am getting out of it though, I am starting to study CS at university next year. So hopefully that will be a bit less stressful because I am well prepared.
namero999 6y ago
It really depends on the age as well, at least for me. I also always had side projects, and I could totally pull 2 full shifts per day (job and side gigs) in my 20s, be healthy, well rested and functional... something that is completely unconceivable now in my late 30s :)
mikesabbagh 6y ago
I hate to say this, but I spend several hours daily on my side project too. My wife hated me for a while, now she seems to accept it. I can best describe it as an obsession. You have something u need to do, u cant rest or enjoy something else until it is done. When I shower I think of my project and when I take a walk, I think of my project too. Complete obsession to solve the problems; one problem after another problem.

frankbyte 6y ago

There's 24 hours in a day. Read Bezos or Musk's or anybody stories and they'll tell you they worked 20-23 hours a day. It's fucking crazy with some people, but that's what it takes to get ahead of the competition. Edit: Please note that I'm not advocating that anybody should do this, but just be aware that a lot of people are setting that level for themselves and in some cases for their subordinates.

tinco 6y ago
Pulling an all nighter every once in a while, or even a couple consecutive days during crunch time is not the same as working 20 hours per day. So unless you've got a specific quote from either of them I call bullshit. That said, Bill Gates definitely said he and some of his crew were working 16 hour days delivering their first DOS release. Point is, you might work some intense stretches, and doing that shows your passion and might land give you an edge when you need it. But you don't need to go insane. If you work 8 hours day job, don't spend hours in commute, you can be perfectly healthy spending 2 hours of your night time each day working a side gig.
- frankbyte 6y ago
  “There were times when, some weeks ... I haven’t counted exactly, but I would just sort of sleep for a few hours, work, sleep for a few hours, work, seven days a week. Some of those days must have been 120 hours or something nutty.” Now, Musk said he is “down to 80 or 90” hours of work per week and “it’s pretty manageable.” https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/05/elon-musk-on-working-120-hours-a-week-youll-go-bonkers.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/05/elon-musk-on-working-120-hou... That's the quickest I could find. But yeah, I suppose 20-23h constantly long-term would not be doable. Point is though that many people can and do work even long-term the equavalent of 2 "full-time jobs".
Nkuna 6y ago
Quite naive of you to believe Musk or Bezos worked 23 hour workdays. Even if that was remotely true, everything bears consequence. It might have "worked", but the downsides of this toxic work ethic are bound to present themselves, in the present or future. Never mind working such hours does not guarantee success. Hell, it only about guarantees poor relations and health with any chance of success a very distant second. So at best you're successful with shit relationships or fail with the same prospects? Dunno 'bout you, but I don't play no game I can't win!
- frankbyte 6y ago
  Well it's presented them with billionaire fortunes. That's a fact. I think it's fine for entrepreneurs like them to work however much they want, but it's not cool to put that on employees, especially if they don't have any ownership in the company. I don't buy the theory about poor relationships and long hours. I could see it going either way, especially if one was single and would otherwise spend their time at home watching tv or whatever.
  - Dudeman112 6y ago
    How do you keep non poor relationships if you are just transitioning between work/sleep states? You can't keep relationships if the time spent on a relationship tends to 0.
  - nearmint 6y ago
    Why do people evangelize every little comment of a billionaire? He's also human, he can tell me what he wants, I'll believe it when I see it.
blackrock 6y ago
Maybe it’s time that society reduces full time work hours from 40 hours per week, to 24 hours per week. 6 hours per day, 4 days per week. 24 hours per week total. Or 8 hours per day, and 3 days per week. Then you have a 4 day weekend. Anything more, is regarded as overtime. Then those that do want to get ahead, can work the remaining 16 hours on a separate job. Software automation, mechanization, and robotics, have reduced the need for manual drudgery. And farms are highly mechanized to mass produce raw foodstuffs. The corporations should be competing against themselves, to work for us, the citizens, that makes their profits possible. Instead of just competing to take a bigger piece of the pie, and to hoard it all for themselves. It’s time that we as a society, begin to think differently.
- langitbiru 6y ago
  I created yet another part-time jobs website to support that idealism. https://parttime.careers https://parttime.careers I think that the part-time jobs culture today is like the remote jobs culture 15 years ago.
  - blackrock 6y ago
    Very nice!
- djeiasbsbo 6y ago
  I think what we need is another free day, preferrably on wednesday. I think that might improve everyones performance. Too bad that that can never happen on a large scale due to historical/religious reasons.
  - blackrock 6y ago
    Friday is better. So you can get a 3 day weekend. This would also help boost local or nearby tourism. It’ll give people an extra day to travel.

djaychela 6y ago

A friend of mine (who's nearly 50) put in over 2000 hours into playing Destiny one year. That's about the same as a full time job. He has a wife and two kids, and a very full time job. Doing that much work on a side gig is totally possible if you want to do it and have the right disposition.

jmcgough 6y ago
Granted, 2000 hours is a lot, but most humans need at least some time to unwind and relax in order to maintain high levels of productivity.
- bryanrasmussen 6y ago
  I think it sounds like he spent 2000 hours unwinding and relaxing?
marmaduke 6y ago
That’s over 5 hours a day. If you have wife and kids and a job then either you, your job or your family is missing out.
djeiasbsbo 6y ago
Okay, but how healthy is it really? Maybe I am projecting my issues onto other people but I often get less sleep when I invest a lot of time into my side projects as well as my job.

ramraj07 6y ago

The reality is that some people can just do more per day than others. It's very common in academia that many professors spend their entire lifetime in 60-80hr work weeks their entire life. I remember going to conferences,especially the really small ones, the professors and students would spend all day listening to extremely draining lectures; this one particular conference started at 8.30 am, went till 1 pm, you get a few hours break, and then it goes till 9 pm. I'd go back to my room in the noon time to take a nap, and in the evening maybe go to the bar for a small bit to get a drink and go back to the room to get ready for the next day, but the majority of professors would spend most of the midday break meeting each other, and also continue socializing in the bar fairly late into night, and they'll still come back the next day as if this is a regular day. I had a talk with my professor on how they're doing it and his response was just "you just have to train yourself to do it and get used to it." Probably one of the main reasons why I chose not to continue down that path!

jll29 6y ago
The trick is that if coding is your passion it doesn't feel like work, more like oxygen...
- rubicon33 6y ago
  Unfortunately for some of us, passions fade. I still love coding, but it's not the kind of thing I'm likely to enjoy spending 16 hours a day doing anymore. I've been there, done that, seen it all (server, web, mobile, firmware, games). It's routine now, but not something I can lose myself into like I used to be able to. I get bored far faster.
  - halfdan 6y ago
    It's interesting. I'm still in a state where I enjoy it most of the time and I could certainly spend an entire day coding... But I'm running super low on good ideas. Ideas used to pop into mind all the time, now it's like once a year and I quickly abandon it.

ed_elliott_asc 6y ago

I could do it if I didn’t have a family, I used to commute 2 hours each way so considering getting a part time job for the commute time I am now at home for - if it wouldn’t cause a divorce I’d get two jobs or work on a side project for that time. You need to take time off though at weekends etc if you are doing it longer term. (Note this isn’t a recommendation) Also note that I don’t care for tv or gaming so don’t have those time black holes.

gigamick 6y ago
So I'm not wanting to get into what appears to be a growing argument. But I have a young family and an intense day job. I still managed to build SongBox. I just love building things. I don't do social media, don't watch shitty tv. I just like to build.
- ed_elliott_asc 6y ago
  I think the key is: If you are working 60 hours a week for a job paying 40 hours then it is horrible. If you work 40 hours and spend 20 hours a week doing your own thing, it is hard work but doable. Long term no one should work 60 hours a week.

an_opabinia 6y ago

> but I am genuinely curious how you were able to work 8 hours a day on it and also work your regular job Hacker News repeatedly rediscovers that there is no point in putting in more than the bare minimum at typical jobs over and over again. Some people pour the gained time into leetcode and succeed. Some pour it into stuff they're excited about. Some into their families. Some pour it into being at the right place at the right time. Hardly anyone has ever succeeded by pouring it into their jobs.

marmaduke 6y ago
> Hardly anyone has ever succeeded by pouring it into their jobs This might be the most relevant part of the discussion
- an_opabinia 6y ago
  It certainly is a conundrum for startups, where after the founders, you're asking someone to commit career suicide by working hard for you.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - thorough 6y ago
    I think if you’ve decided that there is something wrong with the employer/employee relationship where hundreds spend their professional life working at someone else’s company, pushing ahead that person’s vision, and fulfilling that person’s goals, then you shouldn’t turn around and play an integral role in the same game you once despised, all because it’s much easier to succeed in business if you have a bunch of people devoting their working lives to your vision. I don’t know how to escape that model at a wider scale, exactly, but if I were worth millions of dollars, I think I’d have the economic luxury to invest some time to figure out how.
- notsureaboutpg 6y ago
  It's also untrue. Many execs at companies moved up the ranks there and they probably did it the same way, by pouring their extra time into their jobs.

bird_monster 6y ago

> I am genuinely curious how you were able to work 8 hours a day on it and also work your regular job. Fulltime jobs usually aren't fulltime in that they take all of your available thinking capacity, nor do they quench a person's curiosity or interest. More often, fulltime jobs (especially in tech) are ~40% work, 60% absolute garbage timewasting. Sitting through meetings that don't need to happen, to satisfy an insecurity or requirement that someone above has, without actually solving any real problems or creating any change. Some people do exactly as much is required at their actual job (so a generous 40% of their available capacity) and then spend their nights, weekends and freetime pouring themselves into other things. Startups, personal projects, hobbies, families, etc. Fulltime jobs are almost never rewarding or exciting. A startup may start exciting/fulfilling, but eventually corporate garbage sets in and you're on the same treadmill of meetings to talk about prospective work/how much work there is, fitting actual fulfillment of tasks in between.

markdown 6y ago

Be young, be single, live with your parents or have a high-enough paying job that you don't have to cook every meal. Easy!

djeiasbsbo 6y ago
All of that applies to me... Again, that definitely gives me the time to do so on weekends but during a work week it would just be unhealthy. I can't even fathom staring at a screen even longer and I already get teary eyed every day. But I am provably projecting my issues onto other people. Maybe they have less stress/pressure at their jobs. I am getting out of it though, I am starting to study CS at university next year. So hopefully that will be a bit less stressful because I am well prepared.

namero999 6y ago

It really depends on the age as well, at least for me. I also always had side projects, and I could totally pull 2 full shifts per day (job and side gigs) in my 20s, be healthy, well rested and functional... something that is completely unconceivable now in my late 30s :)

mikesabbagh 6y ago

I hate to say this, but I spend several hours daily on my side project too. My wife hated me for a while, now she seems to accept it. I can best describe it as an obsession. You have something u need to do, u cant rest or enjoy something else until it is done. When I shower I think of my project and when I take a walk, I think of my project too. Complete obsession to solve the problems; one problem after another problem.