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Your skip level manager is not any more able to fire you than your manager, so I see no reason why you'd have to be more careful in those meetings than the 1:1

Your skip level manager is not any more able to fire you than your manager, so I see no reason why you'd have to be more careful in those meetings than the 1:1 with your manager. I'd even say that if you aren't getting to meet and make an impression on your skip level then there is something wrong. They are your best bet to get promoted and if the organization tries to block that path for you then why should you stay instead of looking for better opportunities?

wonder_er 6y ago
> Your skip level manager is not any more able to fire you than your manager True, but say something that reflects negatively on your manager, and if they hear about it, they may rapidly become _more likely_ to fire you than the skip-level manager.
- pc86 6y ago
  Why would you say something (whether it's negative or not) to your skip that you haven't said to your direct manager? Skip-level meetings should be about distilling important topics from your 1:1's with your direct manager and sharing with your skip what they need to know. There shouldn't really be any information that your skip has that your manager hasn't gotten weeks earlier (if it's negative, so they can try to fix it).
  - astrange 6y ago
    Not all of your work has to involve your direct manager. Some of it might come from the skip or higher, either because it’s super-secret or to give you more visibility. In that case you still need healthy communication with your own team manager, but you wouldn’t be telling them everything except what they need to know to manage your workload.
hammock 6y ago
>I see no reason why you'd have to be more careful in those meetings than the 1:1 with your manager The first thing that comes to mind is you wouldn't want to tell your skip level manager anything that you wouldn't (or haven't already) told your direct manager. That's going outside the chain of command and creates political and organizational issues that no one will appreciate.
- Afton 6y ago
  If you're telling your skip level something that you haven't or wouldn't tell your direct manager, that is an indication that you are failing to communicate with your direct manager. That in itself is worth the skip level person knowing. For this is less about being careful, and more about not going off on a spontaneous rant, which honestly, isn't a good idea to do for the chain of command anyway. Spontaneous rants are for your peers. Deliberate communication up and down the COF. My two cents anyway.
- username90 6y ago
  > That's going outside the chain of command and creates political and organizational issues that no one will appreciate. I'd refuse to work anywhere that cares about chain of command. Managers are for bookkeeping purposes, not commanding. If your manager doesn't let you talk to the people you need to talk to to get things done then it is a very toxic environment.
  - DigitalBison 6y ago
    I agree with this, and disagree with the parent comment's framing of this as "going outside the chain of command", but I do think that if you have a healthy relationship and open communication with your direct manager, I can't think of many reasons not to tell your direct manager something before telling your skip-level (or above), as a courtesy and an opportunity for them to address the issue first but not because of some rigid expectations around "command structure". Of course this isn't a hard rule, if I'm having a conversation with my skip-level and some topic happens to come up that I haven't spoken with my manager about before, I'm not necessarily going to hold back just because of that, I can follow up with my manager later. But if something's bothering me or I have some feedback or something like that, I'd generally chat with my manager about it before anyone above them.
  - buckminster 6y ago
    This is half true. When I was an employee I viewed the chain of command as existing for my benefit, not my manager's. If some random bigwig wanted me to do something for them I would direct them to my manager. It wasn't my job to arbitrate between differing management demands on my time.
dkdk8283 6y ago
> Your skip level manager is not any more able to fire you than your manager Not in my experience. For my manager to fire me I need to be first put on an improvement plan. Skip manager can waive this and fire me on the spot, risking a potential lawsuit for the company.

wonder_er 6y ago

> Your skip level manager is not any more able to fire you than your manager True, but say something that reflects negatively on your manager, and if they hear about it, they may rapidly become _more likely_ to fire you than the skip-level manager.

pc86 6y ago
Why would you say something (whether it's negative or not) to your skip that you haven't said to your direct manager? Skip-level meetings should be about distilling important topics from your 1:1's with your direct manager and sharing with your skip what they need to know. There shouldn't really be any information that your skip has that your manager hasn't gotten weeks earlier (if it's negative, so they can try to fix it).
- astrange 6y ago
  Not all of your work has to involve your direct manager. Some of it might come from the skip or higher, either because it’s super-secret or to give you more visibility. In that case you still need healthy communication with your own team manager, but you wouldn’t be telling them everything except what they need to know to manage your workload.

hammock 6y ago

>I see no reason why you'd have to be more careful in those meetings than the 1:1 with your manager The first thing that comes to mind is you wouldn't want to tell your skip level manager anything that you wouldn't (or haven't already) told your direct manager. That's going outside the chain of command and creates political and organizational issues that no one will appreciate.

Afton 6y ago
If you're telling your skip level something that you haven't or wouldn't tell your direct manager, that is an indication that you are failing to communicate with your direct manager. That in itself is worth the skip level person knowing. For this is less about being careful, and more about not going off on a spontaneous rant, which honestly, isn't a good idea to do for the chain of command anyway. Spontaneous rants are for your peers. Deliberate communication up and down the COF. My two cents anyway.
username90 6y ago
> That's going outside the chain of command and creates political and organizational issues that no one will appreciate. I'd refuse to work anywhere that cares about chain of command. Managers are for bookkeeping purposes, not commanding. If your manager doesn't let you talk to the people you need to talk to to get things done then it is a very toxic environment.
- DigitalBison 6y ago
  I agree with this, and disagree with the parent comment's framing of this as "going outside the chain of command", but I do think that if you have a healthy relationship and open communication with your direct manager, I can't think of many reasons not to tell your direct manager something before telling your skip-level (or above), as a courtesy and an opportunity for them to address the issue first but not because of some rigid expectations around "command structure". Of course this isn't a hard rule, if I'm having a conversation with my skip-level and some topic happens to come up that I haven't spoken with my manager about before, I'm not necessarily going to hold back just because of that, I can follow up with my manager later. But if something's bothering me or I have some feedback or something like that, I'd generally chat with my manager about it before anyone above them.
- buckminster 6y ago
  This is half true. When I was an employee I viewed the chain of command as existing for my benefit, not my manager's. If some random bigwig wanted me to do something for them I would direct them to my manager. It wasn't my job to arbitrate between differing management demands on my time.

dkdk8283 6y ago

> Your skip level manager is not any more able to fire you than your manager Not in my experience. For my manager to fire me I need to be first put on an improvement plan. Skip manager can waive this and fire me on the spot, risking a potential lawsuit for the company.