3 ms·

No, these companies are not funded with public money.

maze-le 6y ago
No? > BioNTech to Receive up to €375M in Funding from German Federal Ministry of Education and Research to Support COVID-19 Vaccine Program BNT162 https://www.wallstreet-online.de/nachricht/12930907-biontech-to-receive-up-to-375m-funding-from-german-federal-ministry-of-education-and-research-to-support-covid-19-vaccine-program-bnt162/all https://www.wallstreet-online.de/nachricht/12930907-biontech... > US government and Pfizer reach $1.95 billion deal to produce millions of Covid-19 vaccine doses https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/22/health/pfizer-covid-19-vaccine-government-contract/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/22/health/pfizer-covid-19-va...
- adriancr 6y ago
  > to Support COVID-19 Vaccine Program BNT162 Emphasis on support That doesn't mean the sum is equivalent to the full R&D cost or that the company actually agreed to give the IP developed. Most likely they could have developed even without public funding but not on the expedited timeline.
  - bildung 6y ago
    Do you have any actual evidence for this? BioNTech has about 1k employees strong and got about 375 million Euros. Even if everyone would exclusively work on the vaccine for the whole time, which obviously didn't happen, that amounts to over 700k€ per seat for half a year. In an industry that isn't exactly capital intensive, i.e. the biggest part of expenses will be salaries.
    - adriancr 6y ago
      Please read your own articles before posting. Your article it states clearly what the funding was for: > The goal of the initiative is the expansion of vaccine development and manufacturing capabilities in Germany, as well as the expansion of the number of participants in late-stage clinical trials.
      - bildung 6y ago
        What you quoted is the shortend version of the goals of the funding program, here is a more complete description: https://www.bmbf.de/foerderungen/bekanntmachung-3035.html https://www.bmbf.de/foerderungen/bekanntmachung-3035.html The program is funding clinical trials 1 to 3, having bigger cohorts for trials 2 and 3, and scaling up production while trials are still in progress. In short: Everything that makes vaccine development expensive. Finding the actual vaccine candidates is the cheap part.
        adriancr 6y ago
        > Finding the actual vaccine candidates is the cheap part. Do you have any sources on that?
        bildung 6y ago
        See here: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/langlo/article/PIIS2214-109X(18)30346-2/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/langlo/article/PIIS2214-1... Going from zero to preclinical is about 1/3 of the costs of going from preclinical to phase 2. Phase 3 is not part of this study, neither is parallel production.
        adriancr 6y ago
        That is a study of existing vaccines based on existing practices (which result in astrazeneca's 70% effective vaccine) BioNTech is a different vaccine type, hence effectiveness and fact that both moderna and pfizer license it. The fact that Germany subsidised the last stages to speed it up doesnt mean technology should be public access. That's for the government and company to negotiate.
- refurb 6y ago
  The German funding is funding. The Pfizer funding is just a pre-purchase agreement.
- meragrin_ 6y ago
  According to the German article, they were already in phase 3 and they had not received any of that grant money. Seems to me, it is more about vaccine production at this point.
bildung 6y ago
Biontech's research definitely was funded with public money, over 300€ million, in fact: https://investors.biontech.de/de/news-releases/news-release-details/biontech-erhaelt-bmbf-foerderung-von-bis-zu-375-millionen-euro https://investors.biontech.de/de/news-releases/news-release-...
- meragrin_ 6y ago
  According to the article, they were already in phase 3 and they had not received any of that grant money. Seems to me, it is more about vaccine production at this point.
  - bildung 6y ago
    Correct, though keep mind that this was explicitly demanded for this program: https://www.bmbf.de/foerderungen/bekanntmachung-3035.html https://www.bmbf.de/foerderungen/bekanntmachung-3035.html chapter 4, second bullet point. That doesn't mean they don't get reinbursed for phases 1-3. Of course I don't know for certain, I do have past experience with federal funding in Germany, though. Considering that the company has a history of funding from this source ("BioNTech is already an old friend in our research funding. We - the BMBF - have been promoting this company since it was founded in 2007") https://www.bmbf.de/de/deutschland-kann-innovation-13125.html https://www.bmbf.de/de/deutschland-kann-innovation-13125.htm... my interpretation is that this was a calculated advance payment.
- tinus_hn 6y ago
  They got €300 million but that doesn’t mean the project cost €300 million. This is a pretty normal arrangement where government induces companies to do something by paying at least up to half the cost while the company gets to reap the rewards. I’ve seen it happen in tech but I’m sure it happens in different fields. Of course its a mutually beneficial arrangement, otherwise that would be pretty dumb for a government to do, right?
waihtis 6y ago
I can guarantee if there are any government funding instruments in place in the respective countries of operation, one way or another it will be gouged by the big corps. Example from my home country: the government heavily subsidized the biggest telco’s new cyber security center a couple years back, because it was an ”technological innovation” that would ”bring jobs”. The services provided through this are of course private (as are gains.) The talent and resources of big corp will usually outwit government policy.

No? > BioNTech to Receive up to €375M in Funding from German Federal Ministry of Education and Research to Support COVID-19 Vaccine Program BNT162 https://www.wallstreet-online.de/nachricht/12930907-biontech-to-receive-up-to-375m-funding-from-german-federal-ministry-of-education-and-research-to-support-covid-19-vaccine-program-bnt162/all https://www.wallstreet-online.de/nachricht/12930907-biontech... > US government and Pfizer reach $1.95 billion deal to produce millions of Covid-19 vaccine doses https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/22/health/pfizer-covid-19-vaccine-government-contract/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/22/health/pfizer-covid-19-va...

adriancr 6y ago
> to Support COVID-19 Vaccine Program BNT162 Emphasis on support That doesn't mean the sum is equivalent to the full R&D cost or that the company actually agreed to give the IP developed. Most likely they could have developed even without public funding but not on the expedited timeline.
- bildung 6y ago
  Do you have any actual evidence for this? BioNTech has about 1k employees strong and got about 375 million Euros. Even if everyone would exclusively work on the vaccine for the whole time, which obviously didn't happen, that amounts to over 700k€ per seat for half a year. In an industry that isn't exactly capital intensive, i.e. the biggest part of expenses will be salaries.
  - adriancr 6y ago
    Please read your own articles before posting. Your article it states clearly what the funding was for: > The goal of the initiative is the expansion of vaccine development and manufacturing capabilities in Germany, as well as the expansion of the number of participants in late-stage clinical trials.
    - bildung 6y ago
      What you quoted is the shortend version of the goals of the funding program, here is a more complete description: https://www.bmbf.de/foerderungen/bekanntmachung-3035.html https://www.bmbf.de/foerderungen/bekanntmachung-3035.html The program is funding clinical trials 1 to 3, having bigger cohorts for trials 2 and 3, and scaling up production while trials are still in progress. In short: Everything that makes vaccine development expensive. Finding the actual vaccine candidates is the cheap part.
      - adriancr 6y ago
        > Finding the actual vaccine candidates is the cheap part. Do you have any sources on that?
        bildung 6y ago
        See here: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/langlo/article/PIIS2214-109X(18)30346-2/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/langlo/article/PIIS2214-1... Going from zero to preclinical is about 1/3 of the costs of going from preclinical to phase 2. Phase 3 is not part of this study, neither is parallel production.
        adriancr 6y ago
        That is a study of existing vaccines based on existing practices (which result in astrazeneca's 70% effective vaccine) BioNTech is a different vaccine type, hence effectiveness and fact that both moderna and pfizer license it. The fact that Germany subsidised the last stages to speed it up doesnt mean technology should be public access. That's for the government and company to negotiate.
refurb 6y ago
The German funding is funding. The Pfizer funding is just a pre-purchase agreement.
meragrin_ 6y ago
According to the German article, they were already in phase 3 and they had not received any of that grant money. Seems to me, it is more about vaccine production at this point.

bildung 6y ago

Biontech's research definitely was funded with public money, over 300€ million, in fact: https://investors.biontech.de/de/news-releases/news-release-details/biontech-erhaelt-bmbf-foerderung-von-bis-zu-375-millionen-euro https://investors.biontech.de/de/news-releases/news-release-...

meragrin_ 6y ago
According to the article, they were already in phase 3 and they had not received any of that grant money. Seems to me, it is more about vaccine production at this point.
- bildung 6y ago
  Correct, though keep mind that this was explicitly demanded for this program: https://www.bmbf.de/foerderungen/bekanntmachung-3035.html https://www.bmbf.de/foerderungen/bekanntmachung-3035.html chapter 4, second bullet point. That doesn't mean they don't get reinbursed for phases 1-3. Of course I don't know for certain, I do have past experience with federal funding in Germany, though. Considering that the company has a history of funding from this source ("BioNTech is already an old friend in our research funding. We - the BMBF - have been promoting this company since it was founded in 2007") https://www.bmbf.de/de/deutschland-kann-innovation-13125.html https://www.bmbf.de/de/deutschland-kann-innovation-13125.htm... my interpretation is that this was a calculated advance payment.
tinus_hn 6y ago
They got €300 million but that doesn’t mean the project cost €300 million. This is a pretty normal arrangement where government induces companies to do something by paying at least up to half the cost while the company gets to reap the rewards. I’ve seen it happen in tech but I’m sure it happens in different fields. Of course its a mutually beneficial arrangement, otherwise that would be pretty dumb for a government to do, right?

waihtis 6y ago

I can guarantee if there are any government funding instruments in place in the respective countries of operation, one way or another it will be gouged by the big corps. Example from my home country: the government heavily subsidized the biggest telco’s new cyber security center a couple years back, because it was an ”technological innovation” that would ”bring jobs”. The services provided through this are of course private (as are gains.) The talent and resources of big corp will usually outwit government policy.