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What I like about not integrating the build-step as Deno does: You allow competition and the market comes up with great ideas like Vercel did with pkg. Buildin
by 205g0 6y ago
What I like about not integrating the build-step as Deno does: You allow competition and the market comes up with great ideas like Vercel did with pkg.
Building TS projects is quite demanding and I doubt if one party monopolizes this important step and thinks it does the best job it will degenerate an ecosystem. Even the TS team says the build system is not the core of their work, they just have one for convenience but encourage the community to compete and complement. Integrating build systems is good for beginners who struggle with them but for the rest? IDK.
Or in other words, Deno wants to be more than just an opinionated node-Typescript-distribution nobody cares about but then they need to create this ecosystem and focus on the core (what's their core and value add other than repackaging node and TS would be the next discussion).
With integrating the build step they do the exact opposite, they shut-down an ecosystem before it can even start. There's a night and day difference between good and bad build systems and only competition and a rich ecosystem can bring up the best solutions.
FWIW, there're tons of ways to compile TS, every with different trade-offs and it's good that we have these options.
- oorza 6y agoWhy anyone would look at the litany of mistakes that is npm and Node, then look at Deno and all of the same developers learning nothing except how to implement its "hurr durr URL loading code is cool" approach to security and think "this a good idea" is beyond me. I appreciate Deno because I can ask job interview candidates what their thoughts are about it, and when candidates for senior positions don't point out any of the billion obvious reasons it's a stupid project for stupid people, it saves me a ton of time. Otherwise, it's a waste of time and effort, and all you have to do to convince yourself of that is look at the contribution history of the most prominent contributors on github. I have never, not once, in my life as a developer wanted a project to die so badly.
- cjonas 6y agoWith an attitude like yours, I think it's the candidates who saved a ton of time...
- mssundaram 6y agoI'm reading your post in Derek Zoolander's voice when he sees the model that Mugato had made. > What is this? A center for ants?
- birdsbirdsbirds 6y agoCan you elaborate? What stands out to you in their contributions?
- brundolf 6y agoWho hurt you?
- jhatemyjob 6y agoAt least when you pipe to bash it feels gross and wrong. I can't believe they made it a fucking feature
- kybernetikos 6y agoHiring people based on their ability to predict your own idiosyncratic hatreds of specific technologies is just a horrible idea. It also ensures your ideas never get challenged and you never improve.
- madeofpalk 6y agoWell, at least its mutually beneficial because they sound like a pain to work with.
- incrudible 6y agoThis is called cultural fit. Predicting idiosyncratic hatred is not enough, one must also share it.
- jeswin 6y ago> I appreciate Deno because I can ask job interview candidates what their thoughts are about it, and when candidates for senior positions don't point out any of the billion obvious reasons it's a stupid project for stupid people, it saves me a ton of time. I hope you're either self employed, or that you run your own company. If not, this comment is a red flag for potential recruiters; you might want to consider editing it.
- noir_lord 6y agoBased of this I don't think anyone genuinely senior (or not) would want to work for you with your insane biases. So win-win, Your happy, they are happy.
- _pmf_ 6y ago> What I like about not integrating the build-step as Deno does: You allow competition and the market comes up with great ideas like Vercel did with pkg. Maybe some people need to get things done and don't have the resources for endless tooling masturbation?
- diegoperini 6y agoIf it's good that we have these options, what Deno provides is just another option for us to choose from. I don't see how this is a shut-down for the ecosystem.
- 205g0 6y agoI don't think, Ryan wanted Deno to be just another build system for TypeScript but something a bit bigger. And even if it's meant as a build system there're much better options out just for this purpose.
- no_wizard 6y agoI know providing a fully baked compiler API isn’t high on their list (think babel). I couldn’t find any information from the Typescript team regarding anything you’ve stated about 3rd party build systems and the compiler being provided only for convenience. Do you have anything you can point to from the team about this?
- 205g0 6y agoIt's right in their wiki, "non-goal" number 4 in their TS Design Goals which is also referenced again in some issues: [a non-goal] Provide an end-to-end build pipeline. Instead, make the system extensible so that external tools can use the compiler for more complex build workflows. https://github.com/Microsoft/TypeScript/wiki/TypeScript-Design-Goals#non-goals https://github.com/Microsoft/TypeScript/wiki/TypeScript-Desi...
- no_wizard 6y agoI think I interpreted this differently than the parent poster