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A Non-Hallucinogenic Psychedelic Analog for Treating Mental Illness

62 points by beefman 6y ago

sova 6y ago
>This work demonstrates that, through careful chemical design, it is possible to modify a psychedelic compound to produce a safer, non-hallucinogenic variant that has therapeutic potential. Hoffman would be very interested in this news.
- pmiller2 6y ago
  He might be if he hadn't died 12 years ago. :P
leoh 6y ago
Note that this is a very theoretical paper — Nature is not a medical journal. But very exciting nonetheless.
pmoriarty 6y ago
...in rodents. How would they even know it's "non-hallucinogenic"? Parenthetically, the term "halluciongen" is pejorative, and I wish at least researchers would have more sense than continuing to use it. One of the reasons it's pejorative is that it demeans what one experiences when using such substances as "just a hallucination", whereas it's highly debatable whether that's in fact the case, or even what a "hallucination" is. Some have argued that these substances open your eyes to the "true reality", and it's this reality that's illusory or false on some level. This is a view that goes back thousands of years back at least to Plato and Hinduisim before that, but even in contemporary society there are people who believe that these substances get one in touch with really existing spirits, or ancestors, or god. It also demeans the experience as being valueless in itself. It's far from clear that it is, and many people consider the "hallucinations" by far the most valuable thing about the experience, and argue that it is by the revelations that they have on these substances that the beneficial effects come about. This is, as the existence of this paper shows, still an area of research, but this paper shouldn't be trying to close off that possibility by choosing to use terminology whose very definition presumes the contents of the experience is valueless. Another reason it's pejorative is that there are people who consider these substances to be sacred or teachers, so to call them substances that merely induce hallucinations is disrespectful to these views as well.
- eyelidlessness 6y ago
  This seems like an unnecessarily strong negative reaction to something people are working on to explore mental health treatment. Personally I would like to benefit from this research if it pans out. I don’t have a generally negative association with “hallucinogen” but for personal reasons I’ve been hesitant to try them. If I could benefit from a synthetic of the chemical compounds without undesired (by me) psychoactive effects, I would certainly like to know.
  - pmoriarty 6y ago
    I'm all for the research, just not their choice of terminology.
  - LocalH 6y ago
    The worry (at least for me, and one which I suspect the parent comment shares at least in part) is that in creating these "non-hallucinogenic" paths, the government will choose to direct therapy down that path exclusively, and potentially close off the research into the unmodified psychedelic compounds.
    - elevenoh 6y ago
      This is my concern as well. One could strongly argue that government & quite a few special interest would prefer the research was directed toward 'non-hallucinogenic' research paths. Why? Psychedelic 'hallucinations' aka altered perception have lasting effects on your outlook on reality, and it typically orients folks a little more toward to truth (e.g. concluding "maybe my life of empty materialism & status chasing isn't as deeply satisfying as I've come to believe." or "maybe I don't need daily zoloft if I change my values & life."). Aside: Non-hallucinogenic psych analogous could be useful for folks with schizophrenia or panic.
      - pmoriarty 6y ago
        "Non-hallucinogenic psych analogous could be useful for folks with schizophrenia or panic." There was some early research which reported success in using LSD and psilocybin to treat schizophrenia in children: https://maps.org/news-letters/v07n3/07318fis.html https://maps.org/news-letters/v07n3/07318fis.html
01100011 6y ago
Has it always been the case on HN that submissions relating to hallucinogenic and/or disassociative drugs rocket to the front page?
- snissn 6y ago
  Hell yeah
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- tayo42 6y ago
  Wheres all the psychonaut programmers at work? Ive read before psychedelic use goes back to the original silicon valley companies.
- NikolaeVarius 6y ago
  I Want to read about demonized drugs helping people more than side projects or next js framework
- pmoriarty 6y ago
  No. It hasn't always been this way. Interest in psychedelics (on HN and on many other forums, media outlets, and society in general) was rekindled at the start of the so-called Psychedelic Renaissance, when very positive results of new research in psychedelics was announced. Michael Pollan's "Trip Treatment" article[1] was one of the first to make mainstream readers aware this was going on. After that the floodgates opened as more and more positive research results were announced. HN, like many other news aggregators, discussion forums, and social media outlets followed this trend, and psychedelic users started coming out of the closet... leading to more interest and more coverage. Then microdosing psychedelics started to become trendy, and it seems a lot of people in tech got in to that as well. So now it seems we have a situation where quite a few people on HN are interested in this subject. But, no, it wasn't always like this, and HN used to be much more narrowly focused on tech and startups than it is now. [1] - https://michaelpollan.com/articles-archive/the-trip-treatment/ https://michaelpollan.com/articles-archive/the-trip-treatmen...
- 6y ago
fabiofzero 6y ago
Pharma companies: "we're taking the fun out of the medicine, as usual"
alpple 6y ago
marijuana is a non-hallucinogenic psychadelic

62 points by beefman 6y ago

sova 6y ago

>This work demonstrates that, through careful chemical design, it is possible to modify a psychedelic compound to produce a safer, non-hallucinogenic variant that has therapeutic potential. Hoffman would be very interested in this news.

pmiller2 6y ago
He might be if he hadn't died 12 years ago. :P

leoh 6y ago

Note that this is a very theoretical paper — Nature is not a medical journal. But very exciting nonetheless.

pmoriarty 6y ago

...in rodents. How would they even know it's "non-hallucinogenic"? Parenthetically, the term "halluciongen" is pejorative, and I wish at least researchers would have more sense than continuing to use it. One of the reasons it's pejorative is that it demeans what one experiences when using such substances as "just a hallucination", whereas it's highly debatable whether that's in fact the case, or even what a "hallucination" is. Some have argued that these substances open your eyes to the "true reality", and it's this reality that's illusory or false on some level. This is a view that goes back thousands of years back at least to Plato and Hinduisim before that, but even in contemporary society there are people who believe that these substances get one in touch with really existing spirits, or ancestors, or god. It also demeans the experience as being valueless in itself. It's far from clear that it is, and many people consider the "hallucinations" by far the most valuable thing about the experience, and argue that it is by the revelations that they have on these substances that the beneficial effects come about. This is, as the existence of this paper shows, still an area of research, but this paper shouldn't be trying to close off that possibility by choosing to use terminology whose very definition presumes the contents of the experience is valueless. Another reason it's pejorative is that there are people who consider these substances to be sacred or teachers, so to call them substances that merely induce hallucinations is disrespectful to these views as well.

eyelidlessness 6y ago
This seems like an unnecessarily strong negative reaction to something people are working on to explore mental health treatment. Personally I would like to benefit from this research if it pans out. I don’t have a generally negative association with “hallucinogen” but for personal reasons I’ve been hesitant to try them. If I could benefit from a synthetic of the chemical compounds without undesired (by me) psychoactive effects, I would certainly like to know.
- pmoriarty 6y ago
  I'm all for the research, just not their choice of terminology.
- LocalH 6y ago
  The worry (at least for me, and one which I suspect the parent comment shares at least in part) is that in creating these "non-hallucinogenic" paths, the government will choose to direct therapy down that path exclusively, and potentially close off the research into the unmodified psychedelic compounds.
  - elevenoh 6y ago
    This is my concern as well. One could strongly argue that government & quite a few special interest would prefer the research was directed toward 'non-hallucinogenic' research paths. Why? Psychedelic 'hallucinations' aka altered perception have lasting effects on your outlook on reality, and it typically orients folks a little more toward to truth (e.g. concluding "maybe my life of empty materialism & status chasing isn't as deeply satisfying as I've come to believe." or "maybe I don't need daily zoloft if I change my values & life."). Aside: Non-hallucinogenic psych analogous could be useful for folks with schizophrenia or panic.
    - pmoriarty 6y ago
      "Non-hallucinogenic psych analogous could be useful for folks with schizophrenia or panic." There was some early research which reported success in using LSD and psilocybin to treat schizophrenia in children: https://maps.org/news-letters/v07n3/07318fis.html https://maps.org/news-letters/v07n3/07318fis.html

01100011 6y ago

Has it always been the case on HN that submissions relating to hallucinogenic and/or disassociative drugs rocket to the front page?

snissn 6y ago
Hell yeah
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
tayo42 6y ago
Wheres all the psychonaut programmers at work? Ive read before psychedelic use goes back to the original silicon valley companies.
NikolaeVarius 6y ago
I Want to read about demonized drugs helping people more than side projects or next js framework
pmoriarty 6y ago
No. It hasn't always been this way. Interest in psychedelics (on HN and on many other forums, media outlets, and society in general) was rekindled at the start of the so-called Psychedelic Renaissance, when very positive results of new research in psychedelics was announced. Michael Pollan's "Trip Treatment" article[1] was one of the first to make mainstream readers aware this was going on. After that the floodgates opened as more and more positive research results were announced. HN, like many other news aggregators, discussion forums, and social media outlets followed this trend, and psychedelic users started coming out of the closet... leading to more interest and more coverage. Then microdosing psychedelics started to become trendy, and it seems a lot of people in tech got in to that as well. So now it seems we have a situation where quite a few people on HN are interested in this subject. But, no, it wasn't always like this, and HN used to be much more narrowly focused on tech and startups than it is now. [1] - https://michaelpollan.com/articles-archive/the-trip-treatment/ https://michaelpollan.com/articles-archive/the-trip-treatmen...
6y ago

fabiofzero 6y ago

Pharma companies: "we're taking the fun out of the medicine, as usual"

alpple 6y ago

marijuana is a non-hallucinogenic psychadelic