4 ms·

How about giving every American free college, healthcare and retirement, so they don’t have to be millionaires? The lifetime value of a Nordic-style social sec

by pavlov 6y ago

How about giving every American free college, healthcare and retirement, so they don’t have to be millionaires? The lifetime value of a Nordic-style social security net is equivalent to retiring as a millionaire in America, IMO. And you get to enjoy life in a stable society.

jmeister 6y ago
Ackman’s solution is more libertarian and market-friendly. Business leaders hate govt incompetence and waste much more than redistribution per se, as demonstrated by their relatively generous contributions to charity. A welfare-state necessarily involves govt running a major part of it, horribly inefficiently.
s3r3nity 6y ago
The population of Norway is literally 1% that of the US. MAYBE 2% if we're generous. When you're a small, homogeneous population, you can make systems like that work. Things break down, however, for larger, more heterogeneous populations.
- esrauch 6y ago
  This is a common complaint but I don't really understand it: American healthcare doesn't really seem to need to be "more diverse" than Nordic healthcare to me.
- maximente 6y ago
  so is the implication that larger and/or less homogeneous populations are more at risk of breaking down? that could definitely be interpreted as not so thinly veiled racism.
  - 1shooner 6y ago
    Why are you assuming the relevant dimension is race? I would expect the more homogeneous lifestyle, environment, location, economic status, and perception of/relationship to the healthcare and educational systems would be more relevant characteristics to contrast the two populations.
nodesocket 6y ago
Because that de-incentives people, entrepreneurship, and stifles innovation and growth. @pavlov per your profile, you work at Facebook (which I assume making well over $250k a year) and yet your pushing for a socialist agenda? Seems very hypocritical. I've said this before here on HN, but Naval Ravikant (of AngelList) nailed the problem with government pay subsidies and universal basic income on a podcast with Joe Rogan. "The moment you start having a direct transfer mechanism like that in democracy, you're basically doing away with capitalism which is the engine of economic growth. You're also forcing the entrepreneur out, or telling them not to come here." "People who are down on their luck, they're not looking for handouts. It's not just about money, it's also about status and meaning. The moment I start giving money to you, I've lowered your status and made you a second class citizen.”
- esrauch 6y ago
  If it's hypocritical for rich people to advocate socialism, and just self-serving theft for a poor person to advocate socialism, then no one can advocate it in good faith? I think your quotes are a bit strawmanning: they are good responses to someone is advocating for no private property. There's a large spectrum in the middle that includes single payer insurance and free college that are still very far away from "there's no incentive for anyone to make money anymore!"
- sebastien_b 6y ago
  People being “down on their luck” is usually through something else than “bad luck” - it’s far more often because of systemic problems (like how Black people have historically been marginalized, and continue to be).
  - nodesocket 6y ago
    So then people who have built wealth completely on their own (self-made) and built great US companies did so because they were not marginalized? That's nonsense.
    - sebastien_b 6y ago

by pavlov 6y ago

jmeister 6y ago

Ackman’s solution is more libertarian and market-friendly. Business leaders hate govt incompetence and waste much more than redistribution per se, as demonstrated by their relatively generous contributions to charity. A welfare-state necessarily involves govt running a major part of it, horribly inefficiently.

s3r3nity 6y ago

The population of Norway is literally 1% that of the US. MAYBE 2% if we're generous. When you're a small, homogeneous population, you can make systems like that work. Things break down, however, for larger, more heterogeneous populations.

esrauch 6y ago
This is a common complaint but I don't really understand it: American healthcare doesn't really seem to need to be "more diverse" than Nordic healthcare to me.
maximente 6y ago
so is the implication that larger and/or less homogeneous populations are more at risk of breaking down? that could definitely be interpreted as not so thinly veiled racism.
- 1shooner 6y ago
  Why are you assuming the relevant dimension is race? I would expect the more homogeneous lifestyle, environment, location, economic status, and perception of/relationship to the healthcare and educational systems would be more relevant characteristics to contrast the two populations.

nodesocket 6y ago

Because that de-incentives people, entrepreneurship, and stifles innovation and growth. @pavlov per your profile, you work at Facebook (which I assume making well over $250k a year) and yet your pushing for a socialist agenda? Seems very hypocritical. I've said this before here on HN, but Naval Ravikant (of AngelList) nailed the problem with government pay subsidies and universal basic income on a podcast with Joe Rogan. "The moment you start having a direct transfer mechanism like that in democracy, you're basically doing away with capitalism which is the engine of economic growth. You're also forcing the entrepreneur out, or telling them not to come here." "People who are down on their luck, they're not looking for handouts. It's not just about money, it's also about status and meaning. The moment I start giving money to you, I've lowered your status and made you a second class citizen.”

esrauch 6y ago
If it's hypocritical for rich people to advocate socialism, and just self-serving theft for a poor person to advocate socialism, then no one can advocate it in good faith? I think your quotes are a bit strawmanning: they are good responses to someone is advocating for no private property. There's a large spectrum in the middle that includes single payer insurance and free college that are still very far away from "there's no incentive for anyone to make money anymore!"
sebastien_b 6y ago
People being “down on their luck” is usually through something else than “bad luck” - it’s far more often because of systemic problems (like how Black people have historically been marginalized, and continue to be).
- nodesocket 6y ago
  So then people who have built wealth completely on their own (self-made) and built great US companies did so because they were not marginalized? That's nonsense.
  - sebastien_b 6y ago