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The existence of the phenomenon of translation proves that all natural languages have the same expressive power. You can translate a text from any language to

by pfedor 15y ago

The existence of the phenomenon of translation proves that all natural languages have the same expressive power. You can translate a text from any language to any other language without losing its meaning, and the translation won't be 10x the size of the original. Typically there will be a close to 1-1 correspondence between the sentences and paragraphs in the original and the translation. None of which is true for programming languages, since programming languages actually do differ in significant ways.

IgorPartola 15y ago
I disagree. Meaning is lost. Maybe not for some classes of text, but for a lot of it, at least some meaning is completely lost. Also, different languages tend to reference different events, ideas, interpretations of history. Try for example translating "war on terror" into a language whose origin is a country with no problem with terrorism. Your translation may be understood on some level, but whatever compelling argument you make, it will be perceived very differently. The reader will walk away with a completely different conclusion of your thesis.
jokermatt999 15y ago
Actually, there are generally words that don't quite translate well. It's generally subtle connotations, so you can get the general meaning of a sentence, but not some of the undertones as easily. Since you won't get a compiler error if you miss some of the subtle differences in a translation and you'd need to be familiar with both languages in question, it's harder to pick up such differences. For some examples of what I mean by concepts that are sometimes difficult to translate, look at most examples on this blog: www.betterthanenglish.com/ The older examples are generally better, and I don't agree with the phrase "untranslatable word", but it should provide some general idea of the kinds of ambiguities that would be lost in translation.
- vorg 15y ago
  > Since you won't get a compiler error if you miss some of the subtle differences in a translation and you'd need to be familiar with both languages in question, it's harder to pick up such differences. You might get a scowl, or some other non-verbal feedback, during speech.
mmavnn 15y ago
As an immediate counter example understandable even by someone who hasn't learnt another language, consider puns. They have plenty of meaning but will only be translatable to closely related languages. at best.
paganel 15y ago
> You can translate a text from any language to any other language without losing its meaning You can't translate poetry. Sure, you can find the equivalent words between the language in which the poem has been written and the language you want to translate into, but the original meaning is lost. I can give you countless examples, but the easiest it would be for you to pick a poems' book written in a foreign language (I assume you already know a foreign language) and read it in original. And then read the translation in your native tongue. They aren't quite the same, are they?

by pfedor 15y ago

IgorPartola 15y ago

I disagree. Meaning is lost. Maybe not for some classes of text, but for a lot of it, at least some meaning is completely lost. Also, different languages tend to reference different events, ideas, interpretations of history. Try for example translating "war on terror" into a language whose origin is a country with no problem with terrorism. Your translation may be understood on some level, but whatever compelling argument you make, it will be perceived very differently. The reader will walk away with a completely different conclusion of your thesis.

jokermatt999 15y ago

Actually, there are generally words that don't quite translate well. It's generally subtle connotations, so you can get the general meaning of a sentence, but not some of the undertones as easily. Since you won't get a compiler error if you miss some of the subtle differences in a translation and you'd need to be familiar with both languages in question, it's harder to pick up such differences. For some examples of what I mean by concepts that are sometimes difficult to translate, look at most examples on this blog: www.betterthanenglish.com/ The older examples are generally better, and I don't agree with the phrase "untranslatable word", but it should provide some general idea of the kinds of ambiguities that would be lost in translation.

vorg 15y ago
> Since you won't get a compiler error if you miss some of the subtle differences in a translation and you'd need to be familiar with both languages in question, it's harder to pick up such differences. You might get a scowl, or some other non-verbal feedback, during speech.

mmavnn 15y ago

As an immediate counter example understandable even by someone who hasn't learnt another language, consider puns. They have plenty of meaning but will only be translatable to closely related languages. at best.

paganel 15y ago

> You can translate a text from any language to any other language without losing its meaning You can't translate poetry. Sure, you can find the equivalent words between the language in which the poem has been written and the language you want to translate into, but the original meaning is lost. I can give you countless examples, but the easiest it would be for you to pick a poems' book written in a foreign language (I assume you already know a foreign language) and read it in original. And then read the translation in your native tongue. They aren't quite the same, are they?