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I think there is a lack of imagination here. Perhaps a "social graph" shouldn't belong to any company. The concept itself might be anti-privacy. Perhaps it's

I think there is a lack of imagination here. Perhaps a "social graph" shouldn't belong to any company. The concept itself might be anti-privacy. Perhaps it's time to move back to simpler things like OPML. (Which people seem more comfortable sharing freely - not sure if that's still a "social graph" tho.) Perhaps specific relationship details shouldn't be housed in the social network - just the permission to follow. Perhaps companies who house a "social graph" should be regulated - similar to what is done with medical data. It should be a toxic substance. I just think we're a long way from doing this right and there are a lot of untried options - and I lack imagination as well.

arthurcolle 6y ago
Social graphs are really useful for detecting idea contagion though. Facebook obviously has the tools to fight propaganda, they have one of the most granular datasets of people data ever assembled in human history. They are just addicted to the ad dollars. It is a shame they killed their delightful API. Good riddance to them.
- readams 6y ago
  Seeing sharing in a social graph is easy. Defining what is "propaganda" is all but impossible.
  - arthurcolle 6y ago
    Idk, I really don't think so. shrugs
    - meekmind 6y ago
      It is. It's possible to have two completely valid, objective, and opposed positions in an argument where multiple different groups have a vested interest in one position being more popular than the other. Which one is propaganda? The one you disagree with? The one that doesn't fit with your preconceived notions? The one that doesn't fit with your personality profile? Both positions? Neither position? Do we just shut down all thinking on the internet? Who watches the watchers?
      - atmartins 6y ago
        Objective is a precondition that don't exist when most people call something propaganda. In fact, many definitions of the word call this out, specifically.
      - bigbubba 6y ago
        Small nitpick, whether or not something is propaganda has nothing to do with whether or not it's correct. These are completely orthogonal. "Loose lips sink ships" is basically true, and is also a textbook example of propaganda. Propaganda is media that intents to influence an audience to further an agenda.
        vlovich123 6y ago
        By definition that is almost every communication that a human makes, whether through art, technical books, education, news, opinion pieces etc. They are all attempts to influence an audience and there’s always some kind of agenda behind it.
        bigbubba 6y ago
        > Propaganda is communication that is primarily used to influence an audience and further an agenda, which may not be objective and may be selectively presenting facts in order to encourage a particular synthesis or perception, or using loaded language in order to produce an emotional rather than a rational response to the information that is being presented.[1] Propaganda is often associated with material which is prepared by governments, but activist groups, companies, religious organizations, the media, and individuals also produce propaganda. > In the 20th century, the term propaganda was often associated with a manipulative approach, but historically, propaganda has been a neutral descriptive term.[1][2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda
        rhizome 6y ago
        This is about as rigorous as the questions by those wondering how Facebook could possibly be a monopoly when other websites exist (exaggerating only slightly). Do you know what "discourse" is? It's "how people talk about something," which is what propaganda is designed and intended to manipulate. "Pie tastes good" is not that.
  - freen 6y ago
    It’s advertising Facebook isn’t getting paid for. I’m surprised they don’t go after it as a violation of their terms of service.
    - Shacklz 6y ago
      It drives engagement which likely leads to overall more add views and clicks? "Doom scrolling" and such is something that keeps people on the site for longer which is probably one of their most important metrics
  - kyriee 6y ago
    The actually have metrics for things such as dividedness and unrest. I wouldn’t be surprised they could do an analysis on propaganda. Also, not asking right wing “news” orgs to be fact checkers or having GOP operatives override content policy team decisions regarding misleading stories that were reported by users would be another great way to reduce “propaganda”. It’s not a technically unsolvable problem, it’s just one Facebook doesn’t want to solve. Don’t give them a free pass. They are a multi billion dollar company, they have the all the ressources they need if they cared.

arthurcolle 6y ago

Social graphs are really useful for detecting idea contagion though. Facebook obviously has the tools to fight propaganda, they have one of the most granular datasets of people data ever assembled in human history. They are just addicted to the ad dollars. It is a shame they killed their delightful API. Good riddance to them.

readams 6y ago
Seeing sharing in a social graph is easy. Defining what is "propaganda" is all but impossible.
- arthurcolle 6y ago
  Idk, I really don't think so. shrugs
  - meekmind 6y ago
    It is. It's possible to have two completely valid, objective, and opposed positions in an argument where multiple different groups have a vested interest in one position being more popular than the other. Which one is propaganda? The one you disagree with? The one that doesn't fit with your preconceived notions? The one that doesn't fit with your personality profile? Both positions? Neither position? Do we just shut down all thinking on the internet? Who watches the watchers?
    - atmartins 6y ago
      Objective is a precondition that don't exist when most people call something propaganda. In fact, many definitions of the word call this out, specifically.
    - bigbubba 6y ago
      Small nitpick, whether or not something is propaganda has nothing to do with whether or not it's correct. These are completely orthogonal. "Loose lips sink ships" is basically true, and is also a textbook example of propaganda. Propaganda is media that intents to influence an audience to further an agenda.
      - vlovich123 6y ago
        By definition that is almost every communication that a human makes, whether through art, technical books, education, news, opinion pieces etc. They are all attempts to influence an audience and there’s always some kind of agenda behind it.
        bigbubba 6y ago
        > Propaganda is communication that is primarily used to influence an audience and further an agenda, which may not be objective and may be selectively presenting facts in order to encourage a particular synthesis or perception, or using loaded language in order to produce an emotional rather than a rational response to the information that is being presented.[1] Propaganda is often associated with material which is prepared by governments, but activist groups, companies, religious organizations, the media, and individuals also produce propaganda. > In the 20th century, the term propaganda was often associated with a manipulative approach, but historically, propaganda has been a neutral descriptive term.[1][2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda
        rhizome 6y ago
        This is about as rigorous as the questions by those wondering how Facebook could possibly be a monopoly when other websites exist (exaggerating only slightly). Do you know what "discourse" is? It's "how people talk about something," which is what propaganda is designed and intended to manipulate. "Pie tastes good" is not that.
- freen 6y ago
  It’s advertising Facebook isn’t getting paid for. I’m surprised they don’t go after it as a violation of their terms of service.
  - Shacklz 6y ago
    It drives engagement which likely leads to overall more add views and clicks? "Doom scrolling" and such is something that keeps people on the site for longer which is probably one of their most important metrics
- kyriee 6y ago
  The actually have metrics for things such as dividedness and unrest. I wouldn’t be surprised they could do an analysis on propaganda. Also, not asking right wing “news” orgs to be fact checkers or having GOP operatives override content policy team decisions regarding misleading stories that were reported by users would be another great way to reduce “propaganda”. It’s not a technically unsolvable problem, it’s just one Facebook doesn’t want to solve. Don’t give them a free pass. They are a multi billion dollar company, they have the all the ressources they need if they cared.