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I just checked a couple of definitions in case my memory was failing me, but I don't see any definition of censorship that limits it to governmental action. You

by throwaway201103 6y ago

I just checked a couple of definitions in case my memory was failing me, but I don't see any definition of censorship that limits it to governmental action. YouTube can and does censor content on their platform, I don't understand why so many people seem have trouble with that word. All it means is (quoting Webster) "to examine in order to suppress ... or delete anything considered objectionable"

uoaei 6y ago
The way it's being used in public discourse is not necessarily the dictionary definition of the term. You have to meet people where they are when it comes to rhetoric, not try to force them to follow your version of what means what.
- throwaway201103 6y ago
  To repeat, it's not my version of what censorship means, it's the normative definition of what it means. YouTube censors content.
  - uoaei 6y ago
    YouTube chooses not to display media uploaded to their servers. That is not censorship, that is discretion. Censorship is going around to all the platforms and forcing them to remove content which has already been or is on the way to being displayed to the public.
    - betwixthewires 6y ago
      I'm not who you've been talking to, but I can't help but laugh at this exchange. >Censorship is going around to all the platforms and forcing them to remove content which has already been or is on the way to being displayed to the public. No, actually, that isn't the definition. You guys just had a back and forth on this. You're artificially trying to limit the definition of "censorship" to fit your sentiment because your sentiment is not based in objective reality. While I would agree with you that YouTube should not be compelled by law to host any content and can censor whatever they want (and we can, and should, refuse to use YouTube to host our videos and inform ourselves), it is still censorship, plain and simple.
      - uoaei 6y ago
        You are conflating discretion and censorship. If you send me a DM asking me to repeat your claims in a public-facing comment, and I refuse, that is not censorship. Ditto for any and every private entity which exists.
    - ksk 6y ago
      I hear net-neutrality is a common position around here. If you agree prima facia that Comcast should not be allowed to block simply or censor YouTube (they're a private company, its their own equipment, etc, etc), then why doesn't the same argument apply to Google? >Censorship is going around to all the platforms and forcing them to remove content which has already been or is on the way to being displayed to the public. That is your own personal definition. What happened to meeting people where they are?
      - uoaei 6y ago
        Net neutrality has little to do with censorship, and more to do with extortion. While it is true that extortionary tactics can be used to effectively censor particular sentiments, that is not what is being referred to in discussions surrounding net neutrality.
        ksk 6y ago
        >Net neutrality has little to do with censorship, and more to do with extortion. "From the consumers’ point of view, net neutrality is a guarantee that all connections are treated equally and ISPs won’t censor the internet." https://nordvpn.com/blog/net-neutrality-pros-and-cons/ https://nordvpn.com/blog/net-neutrality-pros-and-cons/ " Some notable incidents otherwise have included Bell Canada's throttling of certain protocols and Telus's censorship of a specific website critical of the company." " Deep packet inspection helped make real-time discrimination between different kinds of data possible,[49] and is often used for Internet censorship." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_neutrality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_neutrality >While it is true that extortionary tactics can be used to effectively censor particular sentiments, that is not what is being referred to in discussions surrounding net neutrality. Maybe it wasn't being discussed around you. I certainly remember discussions on HN about comcast blocking torrents or whatnot and 'censoring' the internet. But I guess you have a different definition of censorship, so we never did achieve common ground on that.
- makomk 6y ago
  The way "censorship" is being used in public discourse, in practice, seems to be that it's not censorship when it's applied to views the people driving the public discourse disagree with. Remember the controversy over LGBT content supposedly being removed or demonitised on YouTube - pretty mucn none of the mainstream discourse agreed with the idea that it wasn't censorship because YouTube was a private company, let alone the idea that - as I've seen pushed in other areas - that pressuring YouTube not to do it was actually the real attack on their free speech rights.

uoaei 6y ago

The way it's being used in public discourse is not necessarily the dictionary definition of the term. You have to meet people where they are when it comes to rhetoric, not try to force them to follow your version of what means what.

throwaway201103 6y ago
To repeat, it's not my version of what censorship means, it's the normative definition of what it means. YouTube censors content.
- uoaei 6y ago
  YouTube chooses not to display media uploaded to their servers. That is not censorship, that is discretion. Censorship is going around to all the platforms and forcing them to remove content which has already been or is on the way to being displayed to the public.
  - betwixthewires 6y ago
    I'm not who you've been talking to, but I can't help but laugh at this exchange. >Censorship is going around to all the platforms and forcing them to remove content which has already been or is on the way to being displayed to the public. No, actually, that isn't the definition. You guys just had a back and forth on this. You're artificially trying to limit the definition of "censorship" to fit your sentiment because your sentiment is not based in objective reality. While I would agree with you that YouTube should not be compelled by law to host any content and can censor whatever they want (and we can, and should, refuse to use YouTube to host our videos and inform ourselves), it is still censorship, plain and simple.
    - uoaei 6y ago
      You are conflating discretion and censorship. If you send me a DM asking me to repeat your claims in a public-facing comment, and I refuse, that is not censorship. Ditto for any and every private entity which exists.
  - ksk 6y ago
    I hear net-neutrality is a common position around here. If you agree prima facia that Comcast should not be allowed to block simply or censor YouTube (they're a private company, its their own equipment, etc, etc), then why doesn't the same argument apply to Google? >Censorship is going around to all the platforms and forcing them to remove content which has already been or is on the way to being displayed to the public. That is your own personal definition. What happened to meeting people where they are?
    - uoaei 6y ago
      Net neutrality has little to do with censorship, and more to do with extortion. While it is true that extortionary tactics can be used to effectively censor particular sentiments, that is not what is being referred to in discussions surrounding net neutrality.
      - ksk 6y ago
        >Net neutrality has little to do with censorship, and more to do with extortion. "From the consumers’ point of view, net neutrality is a guarantee that all connections are treated equally and ISPs won’t censor the internet." https://nordvpn.com/blog/net-neutrality-pros-and-cons/ https://nordvpn.com/blog/net-neutrality-pros-and-cons/ " Some notable incidents otherwise have included Bell Canada's throttling of certain protocols and Telus's censorship of a specific website critical of the company." " Deep packet inspection helped make real-time discrimination between different kinds of data possible,[49] and is often used for Internet censorship." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_neutrality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_neutrality >While it is true that extortionary tactics can be used to effectively censor particular sentiments, that is not what is being referred to in discussions surrounding net neutrality. Maybe it wasn't being discussed around you. I certainly remember discussions on HN about comcast blocking torrents or whatnot and 'censoring' the internet. But I guess you have a different definition of censorship, so we never did achieve common ground on that.
makomk 6y ago
The way "censorship" is being used in public discourse, in practice, seems to be that it's not censorship when it's applied to views the people driving the public discourse disagree with. Remember the controversy over LGBT content supposedly being removed or demonitised on YouTube - pretty mucn none of the mainstream discourse agreed with the idea that it wasn't censorship because YouTube was a private company, let alone the idea that - as I've seen pushed in other areas - that pressuring YouTube not to do it was actually the real attack on their free speech rights.