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> ...think that electronic voting is reliable... Given that there is a paper trail in virtually all cases, and that the manual counting of that paper trail al

> ...think that electronic voting is reliable... Given that there is a paper trail in virtually all cases, and that the manual counting of that paper trail almost perfectly matched the electronic version, the answer can only be "Yes!". There's zero evidence of fraud, and abundant affirmative evidence that the machines accurately and completely counted the ballots that were entered. By all means, continue to have a paper record so we can verify afterwards, but the dominion systems worked very well. Edit: The fact that this question is continuing to be asked, in spite of all of this mountain of easily available affirmative proof, is a shocking indictment of the general public. I wish people took the responsibility which comes with the right to free speech a little more seriously.

l33tbro 6y ago
I'm no Trump fan, but I try to be open with this stuff and actually tuned into one of the Arizona hearings out of curiosity. It was pretty interesting hearing from a retired US colonel giving evidence to say that these machines are built to be manipulated (1). While I'm highly skeptical of any of the fraud stuff, I would much rather the opportunity to explore the issue like this myself than have it shut down by corporate gatekeepers. (1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Wja-JMaNXQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Wja-JMaNXQ
- Godel_unicode 6y ago
  Perhaps I'm stating the obvious, but the video you linked to is still up. This, despite the fact that the specific claims made have been roundly debunked. Pima county, the county referenced, has done a hand count and it matched the machine count almost exactly. That news is widely available. These videos being up isn't contributing to the debate so much as providing a lot of smoke that can be pointed to as evidence of fire by people who mostly haven't watched them and can't be bothered to do their own research (I'm not accusing you of this, to be clear).
  - l33tbro 6y ago
    I really don't have a dog in this fight. I'm not a US citizen. I cannot stand Trump. I pretty much only care about this issue from an information architecture pov. But ... from my understanding, a hand-count is not the same as an electoral audit. An audit exhaustively looks at the systems, procedures, and the path that the data has traveled in order to verify the result. From what I'm aware of, that is what Trump people are disputing? Please correct me if I'm wrong on this.
    - Godel_unicode 6y ago
      The Trump people are alleging that there was fraud, frequently with no specifics. Where they have made specific allegations, those allegations have been roundly disproved. They then continue to say there was fraud, see my previous statement about smoke. The fundamental problem here is the impracticality of proving a negative. In order to conclusively demonstrate that there was no fraud of any kind we would need to have an audit trail from citizenship being granted (largely at birth) through votes being tabulated. That's impossible. So we have standards for what things we investigate and how we investigate them. Those standards have been surpassed out of an abundance of caution in virtually all cases this election cycle. As an aside, it's interesting to me that the group which normally screams the loudest about government inefficiency and the waste that comes from the government are suddenly the people screaming that everything needs to be checked and rechecked at huge cost to the tax payer when there is very, very little chance of anything changing. This is going to be in textbooks in the future under the heading "Loss Aversion", which I guess means at least we'll get something out of the money we're lighting on fire?
- mensetmanusman 6y ago
  I looked for the dominion api that lets you add weight factors to people’s votes, haven’t found the code though, its release has been blocked for trade secret reasons or something?
purplecats 6y ago
well, as long as you're sure.
- Godel_unicode 6y ago
  I'm not sure what your point is, but you don't have to take my word for it. That's the nice thing about facts!
disgrunt 6y ago
> Edit: The fact that this question is continuing to be asked, in spite of all of this mountain of easily available affirmative proof, is a shocking indictment of the general public. I wish people took the responsibility which comes with the right to free speech a little more seriously. And yet cites no sources to this "easily available affirmative proof". Thanks for setting the example.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- Godel_unicode 6y ago
  Fortunately for you, youtube has assembled a list of resources. Don't ask me how I found it: https://blog.youtube/news-and-events/supporting-the-2020-us-election https://blog.youtube/news-and-events/supporting-the-2020-us-...

l33tbro 6y ago

I'm no Trump fan, but I try to be open with this stuff and actually tuned into one of the Arizona hearings out of curiosity. It was pretty interesting hearing from a retired US colonel giving evidence to say that these machines are built to be manipulated (1). While I'm highly skeptical of any of the fraud stuff, I would much rather the opportunity to explore the issue like this myself than have it shut down by corporate gatekeepers. (1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Wja-JMaNXQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Wja-JMaNXQ

Godel_unicode 6y ago
Perhaps I'm stating the obvious, but the video you linked to is still up. This, despite the fact that the specific claims made have been roundly debunked. Pima county, the county referenced, has done a hand count and it matched the machine count almost exactly. That news is widely available. These videos being up isn't contributing to the debate so much as providing a lot of smoke that can be pointed to as evidence of fire by people who mostly haven't watched them and can't be bothered to do their own research (I'm not accusing you of this, to be clear).
- l33tbro 6y ago
  I really don't have a dog in this fight. I'm not a US citizen. I cannot stand Trump. I pretty much only care about this issue from an information architecture pov. But ... from my understanding, a hand-count is not the same as an electoral audit. An audit exhaustively looks at the systems, procedures, and the path that the data has traveled in order to verify the result. From what I'm aware of, that is what Trump people are disputing? Please correct me if I'm wrong on this.
  - Godel_unicode 6y ago
    The Trump people are alleging that there was fraud, frequently with no specifics. Where they have made specific allegations, those allegations have been roundly disproved. They then continue to say there was fraud, see my previous statement about smoke. The fundamental problem here is the impracticality of proving a negative. In order to conclusively demonstrate that there was no fraud of any kind we would need to have an audit trail from citizenship being granted (largely at birth) through votes being tabulated. That's impossible. So we have standards for what things we investigate and how we investigate them. Those standards have been surpassed out of an abundance of caution in virtually all cases this election cycle. As an aside, it's interesting to me that the group which normally screams the loudest about government inefficiency and the waste that comes from the government are suddenly the people screaming that everything needs to be checked and rechecked at huge cost to the tax payer when there is very, very little chance of anything changing. This is going to be in textbooks in the future under the heading "Loss Aversion", which I guess means at least we'll get something out of the money we're lighting on fire?
mensetmanusman 6y ago
I looked for the dominion api that lets you add weight factors to people’s votes, haven’t found the code though, its release has been blocked for trade secret reasons or something?

purplecats 6y ago

well, as long as you're sure.

Godel_unicode 6y ago
I'm not sure what your point is, but you don't have to take my word for it. That's the nice thing about facts!

disgrunt 6y ago

> Edit: The fact that this question is continuing to be asked, in spite of all of this mountain of easily available affirmative proof, is a shocking indictment of the general public. I wish people took the responsibility which comes with the right to free speech a little more seriously. And yet cites no sources to this "easily available affirmative proof". Thanks for setting the example.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
Godel_unicode 6y ago
Fortunately for you, youtube has assembled a list of resources. Don't ask me how I found it: https://blog.youtube/news-and-events/supporting-the-2020-us-election https://blog.youtube/news-and-events/supporting-the-2020-us-...