4 ms·

It's depressing to read this quote and then realize it was delivered in 1922, meaning our media has been suffering from this problem of extreme political bias f

by Nacdor 6y ago

It's depressing to read this quote and then realize it was delivered in 1922, meaning our media has been suffering from this problem of extreme political bias for likely more than a century now. A lot of my friends spend all day "Liking" Facebook posts that mocking Trump supporters as ignorant simpletons, then they repeat blatant falsehoods like "Trump told people to drink bleach" or "Trump called Nazis 'very fine people'". The irony is completely lost on them because they're so deep in their own disinformation bubbles.

singlow 6y ago
It's been a lot longer than a century. This is the natural order of things. Bertrand was not criticizing the media as much as he was pointing out its natural tendencies, which originate in the natural tendencies of humans. His solution was not to fix the media, it is to learn how to interpret it.
- sixothree 6y ago
  Learning how to interpret media means successfully defeating some of the best psychological tactics ever created. Bertrand didn't face these tactics and his methods are completely ineffectual at dealing with them. "Learning how to interpret" the media is not even possible any longer.
  - Terrario 6y ago
    This take is disconnected from history. The Spanish-American war is famously known as being push to the American people by the also famously known “yellow press” (a term over a hundred years old now). Malicious journalism and misinformation is not anything new. If anything our desensitization to news and our constant skepticism is a much better state of affair than the hundreds of years of all media being ran and filtered by the local authorities according to their version of the facts. In early Modern Spain, all books needed a license to be published. Also, I believe crown copyright is still a thing in Australia.
  - gnarlysasquatch 6y ago
    What tactics? Seems to me the age old skills of recognizing the source’s reputability still stand strong today. Many people just can’t be bothered to do it.
deanCommie 6y ago
> "very fine people" https://www.politifact.com/article/2019/apr/26/context-trumps-very-fine-people-both-sides-remarks/ https://www.politifact.com/article/2019/apr/26/context-trump... The exact quote: Reporter: "The neo-Nazis started this. They showed up in Charlottesville to protest --" Trump: "Excuse me, excuse me. They didn’t put themselves -- and you had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. So. Trump admitted that the neo-Nazis are very bad people, but the group ALSO had some very fine people. To Trump supporters or "enlightened centrists", this is proof that the left is also deliberately distorting the truth, but you're missing the point. The point isn't that Trump drew a distinction between the Nazis (who were bad) and the non-Nazis (who were good), and therefore he didn't call Nazis good people. The point is that there people marching with Neo-Nazis are not better than Neo-Nazis. If you have a political position and you find yourself attracting neo-Nazis, you have to take a long hard look at what you're doing. This is the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_German https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_German fallacy. Silently and tacitly accepting fascism because you benefit from it is still fascism. So in conclusion, yes, Trump called Nazis "very fine people". It's just that you and Trump don't consider those people Nazis, when they are. > "Trump told people to drink bleach" https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52407177 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52407177 The exact quote: "And then I see the disinfectant where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning? So it'd be interesting to check that." Pointing to his head, Mr Trump went on: "I'm not a doctor. But I'm, like, a person that has a good you-know-what." OK. First of all, let's start with the fact that Trump has a Cult of Personality. His supporters don't just love him, they TRUST him implicitly - more than any other authority figure. More than other politicians, but also more than DOCTORS. An idea from Trump matters more to his supporters than an idea from any medical expert. So. You have Trump "just asking questions" that if a disinfectant can be shown to knock out the virus on a kitchen counter (and at that point there were COUNTLESS news articles about how to protect yourself from the virus by bleaching and disenfecting all your things. He goes a step further and says maybe there is a way to do the same by taking the same disinfectant INSIDE the body. Finally, he says I'm not a doctor, but I know things. Which basically seals the deal and confirms he thinks it's a promising idea. So, no, he didn't say the words "MAGA NATION! Go buy bleach and drink it!" But he did say that he believes that: Disinfectant inside the body could help with the virus through injection or something like it. It is a plausibly deniable one, but it is an endorsement nonetheless.

by Nacdor 6y ago

singlow 6y ago

It's been a lot longer than a century. This is the natural order of things. Bertrand was not criticizing the media as much as he was pointing out its natural tendencies, which originate in the natural tendencies of humans. His solution was not to fix the media, it is to learn how to interpret it.

sixothree 6y ago
Learning how to interpret media means successfully defeating some of the best psychological tactics ever created. Bertrand didn't face these tactics and his methods are completely ineffectual at dealing with them. "Learning how to interpret" the media is not even possible any longer.
- Terrario 6y ago
  This take is disconnected from history. The Spanish-American war is famously known as being push to the American people by the also famously known “yellow press” (a term over a hundred years old now). Malicious journalism and misinformation is not anything new. If anything our desensitization to news and our constant skepticism is a much better state of affair than the hundreds of years of all media being ran and filtered by the local authorities according to their version of the facts. In early Modern Spain, all books needed a license to be published. Also, I believe crown copyright is still a thing in Australia.
- gnarlysasquatch 6y ago
  What tactics? Seems to me the age old skills of recognizing the source’s reputability still stand strong today. Many people just can’t be bothered to do it.

deanCommie 6y ago

> "very fine people" https://www.politifact.com/article/2019/apr/26/context-trumps-very-fine-people-both-sides-remarks/ https://www.politifact.com/article/2019/apr/26/context-trump... The exact quote: Reporter: "The neo-Nazis started this. They showed up in Charlottesville to protest --" Trump: "Excuse me, excuse me. They didn’t put themselves -- and you had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. So. Trump admitted that the neo-Nazis are very bad people, but the group ALSO had some very fine people. To Trump supporters or "enlightened centrists", this is proof that the left is also deliberately distorting the truth, but you're missing the point. The point isn't that Trump drew a distinction between the Nazis (who were bad) and the non-Nazis (who were good), and therefore he didn't call Nazis good people. The point is that there people marching with Neo-Nazis are not better than Neo-Nazis. If you have a political position and you find yourself attracting neo-Nazis, you have to take a long hard look at what you're doing. This is the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_German https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_German fallacy. Silently and tacitly accepting fascism because you benefit from it is still fascism. So in conclusion, yes, Trump called Nazis "very fine people". It's just that you and Trump don't consider those people Nazis, when they are. > "Trump told people to drink bleach" https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52407177 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52407177 The exact quote: "And then I see the disinfectant where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning? So it'd be interesting to check that." Pointing to his head, Mr Trump went on: "I'm not a doctor. But I'm, like, a person that has a good you-know-what." OK. First of all, let's start with the fact that Trump has a Cult of Personality. His supporters don't just love him, they TRUST him implicitly - more than any other authority figure. More than other politicians, but also more than DOCTORS. An idea from Trump matters more to his supporters than an idea from any medical expert. So. You have Trump "just asking questions" that if a disinfectant can be shown to knock out the virus on a kitchen counter (and at that point there were COUNTLESS news articles about how to protect yourself from the virus by bleaching and disenfecting all your things. He goes a step further and says maybe there is a way to do the same by taking the same disinfectant INSIDE the body. Finally, he says I'm not a doctor, but I know things. Which basically seals the deal and confirms he thinks it's a promising idea. So, no, he didn't say the words "MAGA NATION! Go buy bleach and drink it!" But he did say that he believes that: Disinfectant inside the body could help with the virus through injection or something like it. It is a plausibly deniable one, but it is an endorsement nonetheless.