5 ms·

If the election was totally normal would Texas still be suing four other states?

by secondcoming 6y ago

SideburnsOfDoom 6y ago
If Texas politics was totally normal right now, would Texas still be suing four other states?
- jrs235 6y ago
  Unfortunately normal and healthy are not the same. Seems Texas politics is normal for Texas politics at the moment.
- mythrwy 6y ago
  It's not just Texas though. Like 10 other states have joined.
  - dragonwriter 6y ago
    Zero states or other parties have joined, or filed to intervene, but seven states plus the president have indicated that they support and intend to do so. Filings in the case are here: https://www.supremecourt.gov/docket/docketfiles/html/public/22o155.html https://www.supremecourt.gov/docket/docketfiles/html/public/... No one but Texas has filed anything. [EDIT: As noted downthread, things have moved on, and new filings are in.]
    - mythrwy 6y ago
      I think it's 9 indicating they want to join now. I don't have an official source. Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, North Carolina, South Dakota, Missouri. They may get Indiana and Oklahoma as well is my understanding. And they are (at least some of them) interested in joining. https://www.newsweek.com/alabama-louisiana-ags-want-join-texas-election-lawsuit-against-battleground-states-1553392 https://www.newsweek.com/alabama-louisiana-ags-want-join-tex... This is a big deal no matter what your political persuasion is. It's not just some crazy people claiming voting machines are controlled by the Chinese using mind control and a local judge throwing it out. If they take the case it's going to be a very historic event.
      - SideburnsOfDoom 6y ago
        1) it's a big deal for democracy, that's correct. 2) well, it is crazy claims from some crazy / cynical people. 3) no, it won't be thrown out by a _local_ judge. (1) In reality, the election is long over and not close (2) Containing to fabricate an alternate reality via vexatious litigation isn't healthy. 1) https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/12/09/texas-supreme-court-election-lawsuit/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/12/09/texas-supr... 2) https://twitter.com/wolfblitzer/status/1336760093313032192 https://twitter.com/wolfblitzer/status/1336760093313032192
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
      - dragonwriter 6y ago
        > This is a big deal no matter what your political persuasion is. Yes, attempted anti-democratic coups d'etats in powerful, established democracies are big deal. > It's not just some crazy people claiming voting machines are controlled by the Chinese using mind control and a local judge throwing it out. That's true; while not substantially different in the craziness of the claims, if it is thrown out, it won't be by a local judge. > If they take the case it's going to be a very historic event. If they refuse to take the case, its very historic. If they take the case and then dismiss it on threshold grounds like standing or the political question / separation of powers doctrine, it will be very historic. If they take the case and reach the merits, it will be very historic.
        mythrwy 6y ago
        Well I'm just delighted we agree on one thing! Historic. The problem I'm seeing is this. You (and millions of others) see this as a coup attempt. Myself (and millions of others) see the election with hurried mail in ballots and little oversight and lack of external challengers as a coup attempt. We are coming from two very different places obviously and there are a bunch of us. Too many to just say "screw those people they are wrong!" (which is the natural first inclination probably). So what happens? How do we work this out where we can share society together?
    - mythrwy 6y ago
      17 States are now supporting it. https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/22/22O155/163215/20201209144840609_2020-12-09%20-%20Texas%20v.%20Pennsylvania%20-%20Amicus%20Brief%20of%20Missouri%20et%20al.%20-%20Final%20with%20Tables.pdf https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/22/22O155/163215/2020...
uoaei 6y ago
Yes.
croon 6y ago
It was and they did, so lacking any other qualifiers, the answer is "yes".
mcguire 6y ago
Probably. Texas is crazy. I'm surprised they aren't also suing Tennessee or any of the other states that changed election laws in the last 20 years. Source: Grew up in Texas. Took Texas government classes. (Justices of the Peace are responsible for determining cause of death in counties without suitable medical authorities. The only requirement for a JP is to be breathing. One recorded a body with a dozen or so bullet wounds as "suicide.") This isn't the article I was looking for (trust me, the story of a state legislator crawling through transoms in the capitol to make off with early copies of legislation was hilarious), but it's pretty good. Go down to "ten worst". https://www.texasmonthly.com/articles/the-ten-best-and-the-ten-worst-legislators-1981/ https://www.texasmonthly.com/articles/the-ten-best-and-the-t...
dragonwriter 6y ago
> If the election was totally normal would Texas still be suing four other states? Yes, because the election was normal and Texas (joined by 17 other states and the defeated candidate) are suing four other states hoping to overturn the manifest will of the people (both nationally and specifically in the target states.) What's abnormal isn't the election but the radicalization of much of the GOP behind an administration that cannot accept defeat because its head, and much of its upper ranks, face potentially severe legal risk if and when they are no longer shielded by possession of the Office of the President. A radicalization serving personal interest of the Leader above not only national interest (which is, sadly, perhaps not that uncommon) but even partisan interest (which is much less common), causing significant difficulty in the ongoing Senate runoff campaigns in Georgia.

If the election was totally normal would Texas still be suing four other states?

SideburnsOfDoom 6y ago

If Texas politics was totally normal right now, would Texas still be suing four other states?

jrs235 6y ago
Unfortunately normal and healthy are not the same. Seems Texas politics is normal for Texas politics at the moment.
mythrwy 6y ago
It's not just Texas though. Like 10 other states have joined.
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  Zero states or other parties have joined, or filed to intervene, but seven states plus the president have indicated that they support and intend to do so. Filings in the case are here: https://www.supremecourt.gov/docket/docketfiles/html/public/22o155.html https://www.supremecourt.gov/docket/docketfiles/html/public/... No one but Texas has filed anything. [EDIT: As noted downthread, things have moved on, and new filings are in.]
  - mythrwy 6y ago
    I think it's 9 indicating they want to join now. I don't have an official source. Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, North Carolina, South Dakota, Missouri. They may get Indiana and Oklahoma as well is my understanding. And they are (at least some of them) interested in joining. https://www.newsweek.com/alabama-louisiana-ags-want-join-texas-election-lawsuit-against-battleground-states-1553392 https://www.newsweek.com/alabama-louisiana-ags-want-join-tex... This is a big deal no matter what your political persuasion is. It's not just some crazy people claiming voting machines are controlled by the Chinese using mind control and a local judge throwing it out. If they take the case it's going to be a very historic event.
    - SideburnsOfDoom 6y ago
      1) it's a big deal for democracy, that's correct. 2) well, it is crazy claims from some crazy / cynical people. 3) no, it won't be thrown out by a _local_ judge. (1) In reality, the election is long over and not close (2) Containing to fabricate an alternate reality via vexatious litigation isn't healthy. 1) https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/12/09/texas-supreme-court-election-lawsuit/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/12/09/texas-supr... 2) https://twitter.com/wolfblitzer/status/1336760093313032192 https://twitter.com/wolfblitzer/status/1336760093313032192
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
    - dragonwriter 6y ago
      > This is a big deal no matter what your political persuasion is. Yes, attempted anti-democratic coups d'etats in powerful, established democracies are big deal. > It's not just some crazy people claiming voting machines are controlled by the Chinese using mind control and a local judge throwing it out. That's true; while not substantially different in the craziness of the claims, if it is thrown out, it won't be by a local judge. > If they take the case it's going to be a very historic event. If they refuse to take the case, its very historic. If they take the case and then dismiss it on threshold grounds like standing or the political question / separation of powers doctrine, it will be very historic. If they take the case and reach the merits, it will be very historic.
      - mythrwy 6y ago
        Well I'm just delighted we agree on one thing! Historic. The problem I'm seeing is this. You (and millions of others) see this as a coup attempt. Myself (and millions of others) see the election with hurried mail in ballots and little oversight and lack of external challengers as a coup attempt. We are coming from two very different places obviously and there are a bunch of us. Too many to just say "screw those people they are wrong!" (which is the natural first inclination probably). So what happens? How do we work this out where we can share society together?
  - mythrwy 6y ago
    17 States are now supporting it. https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/22/22O155/163215/20201209144840609_2020-12-09%20-%20Texas%20v.%20Pennsylvania%20-%20Amicus%20Brief%20of%20Missouri%20et%20al.%20-%20Final%20with%20Tables.pdf https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/22/22O155/163215/2020...

uoaei 6y ago

Yes.

croon 6y ago

It was and they did, so lacking any other qualifiers, the answer is "yes".

mcguire 6y ago

Probably. Texas is crazy. I'm surprised they aren't also suing Tennessee or any of the other states that changed election laws in the last 20 years. Source: Grew up in Texas. Took Texas government classes. (Justices of the Peace are responsible for determining cause of death in counties without suitable medical authorities. The only requirement for a JP is to be breathing. One recorded a body with a dozen or so bullet wounds as "suicide.") This isn't the article I was looking for (trust me, the story of a state legislator crawling through transoms in the capitol to make off with early copies of legislation was hilarious), but it's pretty good. Go down to "ten worst". https://www.texasmonthly.com/articles/the-ten-best-and-the-ten-worst-legislators-1981/ https://www.texasmonthly.com/articles/the-ten-best-and-the-t...

dragonwriter 6y ago

> If the election was totally normal would Texas still be suing four other states? Yes, because the election was normal and Texas (joined by 17 other states and the defeated candidate) are suing four other states hoping to overturn the manifest will of the people (both nationally and specifically in the target states.) What's abnormal isn't the election but the radicalization of much of the GOP behind an administration that cannot accept defeat because its head, and much of its upper ranks, face potentially severe legal risk if and when they are no longer shielded by possession of the Office of the President. A radicalization serving personal interest of the Leader above not only national interest (which is, sadly, perhaps not that uncommon) but even partisan interest (which is much less common), causing significant difficulty in the ongoing Senate runoff campaigns in Georgia.