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> Fortunately there are natural barriers preventing most people with wild ideas from gaining enough support to be a detriment to society. The internet has all

by slg 6y ago

> Fortunately there are natural barriers preventing most people with wild ideas from gaining enough support to be a detriment to society. The internet has all but nullified these barriers. Just look at all the QAnon garbage. That would have gone nowhere 30 years ago, but today a sizable portion of this country believes it because there is no real difference in authority between one Facebook post, Youtube video, or Tweet and another. >Should I really care if someone else chooses to believe x, y, or z? You shouldn't, unless that view is harmful to society. I don't care if you think the COVID vaccine has a microchip in it. But if you delay our return to a normally functioning society because you refuse to get that vaccine, your stupidity is starting to infringe on my rights.

curiousgeorgio 6y ago
Does it really matter if some people believe in QAnon? If enough people decide that the COVID vaccine is important enough for everyone to receive (regardless of their personal beliefs), then that will be codified into law. No need for censorship to try and manipulate public perception.
- slg 6y ago
  >Does it really matter if some people believe in QAnon? When it starts to get dangerous, yes. People are inspired toward violence when they believe that other people are killing children to drink their blood. For those unaware, that is at the heart of QAnon beliefs. >If enough people decide that the COVID vaccine is important enough for everyone to receive (regardless of their personal beliefs), then that will be codified into law. No need for censorship to try and manipulate public perception. Do you realize this is an exact analogy to what Youtube is doing here? They tried to let the people decide. We ended up with a result that was bad for society. So they instead tried to codify the "right" choice into the laws of their platform.
  - curiousgeorgio 6y ago
    > When it starts to get dangerous, yes. People are inspired toward violence when they believe... I see this argument a lot, but it fails to address the clear distinction between beliefs and actions. If people are actually violent, we have clear laws to deal with those actions. If the argument is that certain beliefs shouldn't be allowed because they could be construed as "inspiring violence", then I'd love to hear about how tolerant you are towards Islam's idea of jihad or countless others who believe violence is justified in circumstances that you disagree with.
    - slg 6y ago
      >I see this argument a lot, but it fails to address the clear distinction between beliefs and actions. If people are actually violent, we have clear laws to deal with those actions. Why outlaw threats and fighting words then? They aren't violence. Some of us want to stop easily predictable violence before it gets to the point of actual violence. >If the argument is that certain beliefs shouldn't be allowed because they could be construed as "inspiring violence", then I'd love to hear about how tolerant you are towards Islam's idea of jihad or countless others who believe violence is justified in circumstances that you disagree with. It is curious that you use Islam as your example here. Various religions preach violence. The Old Testament establishes the death penalty for people who break the Sabbath. What matters is the actual practice and how likely they are to inspire violence. The QAnon conspiracies are more dangerous in this regard than thousand plus year old religions.
      - curiousgeorgio 6y ago
        > Some of us want to stop easily predictable violence before it gets to the point of actual violence. Are you being serious? I honestly can't tell. This has played out in countless movies and books, and the result is never good. It has also played out in real life, and the result is even worse. > What matters is the actual practice... Bingo! Sounds like maybe you're beginning to see the error in trying to police thoughtcrime. It's the actions that matter, not the beliefs alone.
        6y ago
inglor_cz 6y ago
"That would have gone nowhere 30 years ago" Oh, the entire history of religious and pseudoreligious movements begs to differ. A relatively recent, but decidedly pre-Internet example with a high death toll: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxer_Rebellion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxer_Rebellion
- slg 6y ago
  I don't understand the comparison you are making. How are those equivalent to QAnon?
  - inglor_cz 6y ago
    "The Boxers, armed with rifles and swords, claimed supernatural invulnerability towards blows of cannon, rifle shots, and knife attacks." The combination of absurdity of the core claims of the movement and width of audience gained seems fairly similar to me.
    - slg 6y ago
      So really you are just lumping in QAnon with all religion. I'm not sure who would be more upset with that QAnon folks or religious non-QAnon folks.
      - inglor_cz 6y ago
        I know a lot of religious people, but none of them think themselves exempt from basic laws of nature (e.g. immune to artillery fire). This kind of belief goes way beyond usual religion.

by slg 6y ago

curiousgeorgio 6y ago

Does it really matter if some people believe in QAnon? If enough people decide that the COVID vaccine is important enough for everyone to receive (regardless of their personal beliefs), then that will be codified into law. No need for censorship to try and manipulate public perception.

slg 6y ago
>Does it really matter if some people believe in QAnon? When it starts to get dangerous, yes. People are inspired toward violence when they believe that other people are killing children to drink their blood. For those unaware, that is at the heart of QAnon beliefs. >If enough people decide that the COVID vaccine is important enough for everyone to receive (regardless of their personal beliefs), then that will be codified into law. No need for censorship to try and manipulate public perception. Do you realize this is an exact analogy to what Youtube is doing here? They tried to let the people decide. We ended up with a result that was bad for society. So they instead tried to codify the "right" choice into the laws of their platform.
- curiousgeorgio 6y ago
  > When it starts to get dangerous, yes. People are inspired toward violence when they believe... I see this argument a lot, but it fails to address the clear distinction between beliefs and actions. If people are actually violent, we have clear laws to deal with those actions. If the argument is that certain beliefs shouldn't be allowed because they could be construed as "inspiring violence", then I'd love to hear about how tolerant you are towards Islam's idea of jihad or countless others who believe violence is justified in circumstances that you disagree with.
  - slg 6y ago
    >I see this argument a lot, but it fails to address the clear distinction between beliefs and actions. If people are actually violent, we have clear laws to deal with those actions. Why outlaw threats and fighting words then? They aren't violence. Some of us want to stop easily predictable violence before it gets to the point of actual violence. >If the argument is that certain beliefs shouldn't be allowed because they could be construed as "inspiring violence", then I'd love to hear about how tolerant you are towards Islam's idea of jihad or countless others who believe violence is justified in circumstances that you disagree with. It is curious that you use Islam as your example here. Various religions preach violence. The Old Testament establishes the death penalty for people who break the Sabbath. What matters is the actual practice and how likely they are to inspire violence. The QAnon conspiracies are more dangerous in this regard than thousand plus year old religions.
    - curiousgeorgio 6y ago
      > Some of us want to stop easily predictable violence before it gets to the point of actual violence. Are you being serious? I honestly can't tell. This has played out in countless movies and books, and the result is never good. It has also played out in real life, and the result is even worse. > What matters is the actual practice... Bingo! Sounds like maybe you're beginning to see the error in trying to police thoughtcrime. It's the actions that matter, not the beliefs alone.
      - 6y ago

inglor_cz 6y ago

"That would have gone nowhere 30 years ago" Oh, the entire history of religious and pseudoreligious movements begs to differ. A relatively recent, but decidedly pre-Internet example with a high death toll: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxer_Rebellion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxer_Rebellion

slg 6y ago
I don't understand the comparison you are making. How are those equivalent to QAnon?
- inglor_cz 6y ago
  "The Boxers, armed with rifles and swords, claimed supernatural invulnerability towards blows of cannon, rifle shots, and knife attacks." The combination of absurdity of the core claims of the movement and width of audience gained seems fairly similar to me.
  - slg 6y ago
    So really you are just lumping in QAnon with all religion. I'm not sure who would be more upset with that QAnon folks or religious non-QAnon folks.
    - inglor_cz 6y ago
      I know a lot of religious people, but none of them think themselves exempt from basic laws of nature (e.g. immune to artillery fire). This kind of belief goes way beyond usual religion.