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> Do we knock instagram for mental health issues for youth? Yes. Honestly, I don't think we should knock Instagram for mental health issues, that's really up t

by dntrkv 6y ago

> Do we knock instagram for mental health issues for youth? Yes. Honestly, I don't think we should knock Instagram for mental health issues, that's really up to the user. Instagram's responsibility should be in providing tools to block users/content you don't want to see. If your child is suffering from Instagram, that's on you as a parent (why the fuck are they on Instagram). You don't need Instagram to be bullied, though social media in general, does increase its reach. But what do you expect when you put your life on display for the internet? > Do we knock tobacco companies for making cheap/addictive products that are detrimental to health? Yes. Tobacco only has one use. There is no benefit to it. Robinhood is an investment tool that has significantly lowered the barrier to entry for all investors (isn't that what everyone has wanted all along?). I would not consider what they are doing gamification, they've just unlocked investment options to the average Joe that make it very easy to shoot yourself in the foot. > Do we knock MLM companies for predatory behaviors? Yes. MLM companies are created for one purpose, scamming people out of money. Robinhood serves a purpose. Instagram serves a purpose. Both services provide a ton of value for millions of people. You can't compare them to entities that only exist to cause harm.

mbesto 6y ago
> You can't compare them to entities that only exist to cause harm. All of the entities I mentioned (including Robhinhood) have created a ton of wealth/jobs/income/etc. for a lot of people (easily 100k+ individuals). How do you reconcile that with "only exist to cause harm"?
- dntrkv 6y ago
  MLM has not created a ton of wealth, jobs, or income. It has done that for a select few, and robbed the majority of its victims. Instagram has provided immense value for millions not only in the ability to connect with others, but opportunities for photographers, videographers, actors, venues, musicians, and almost every other type of creative and small business, that they otherwise wouldn't have gotten. I know the prevailing view on HN is that social media is bad for society. I disagree. The amount of knowledge and experiences shared through social media has had a huge positive impact on the world, of course with it has come some negatives. But in general, through social media the world is now connected to a level where we can see what the real, on the ground experience is like in other places and events. I think this is key for bringing more empathy to the world, especially when it comes to relating to other people's struggles in places where most people don't really think about. I think as a society, we are in an adjustment phase with social media, and the internet in general.
bryananderson 6y ago
> Honestly, I don't think we should knock Instagram for mental health issues, that's really up to the user. Frankly, we know enough about human psychology to definitively say that this is not true, or at least not workable or useful. We know that different technologies provide environments with different affordances. They influence us to think, feel, and behave in different ways by providing different possibilities and making some of them more appealing or lower-effort than others. We are not simple automatons, but neither do we have unfettered free will as the Enlightenment philosophers conceived of it. Rather, we are unavoidably affected to some degree by our environment. We have well-known and easily exploitable cognitive biases and addictive triggers. Our underlying nature was always there, but different environments and different incentives can bring out the best or the worst of it. Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook bring out the worst. And it's not an accident: they consciously seek to leverage psychological research in order to addict us, be. Unfortunately, the things that addict us are fear, anxiety, envy, anger, tribalism, and self-loathing. Robinhood is analogous. They have created an easy, free, addictive way to ruin your life, and they profit handsomely from it. They aren't ignorant of how many people have lost everything, and they aren't innocent, because their product actively invites you to do it. It doesn't matter what the fine print says.
- dntrkv 6y ago
  > they consciously seek to leverage psychological research in order to addict us, be. Unfortunately, the things that addict us are fear, anxiety, envy, anger, tribalism, and self-loathing. Would you say HN does the same? Fear triggered through the many posts spreading FUD Anxiety triggered by that same FUD Envy triggered by posts about 18 year old prodigies / success by others Anger triggered by politics, tech choices, etc Tribalism triggered again by politics and tech choices Self-loathing triggered by seeing what others are capable of In my younger years, I experienced all of these feelings more from the likes of HN, than Instagram. Since I know that IG/FB/etc are fake representations of people's lives. HN on the other hand showed people's real accomplishments. In my opinion, this is a problem of the internet, not any particular social media app. We should be teaching children, and people in general, how to have a healthy online life. > They aren't ignorant of how many people have lost everything, and they aren't innocent, because their product actively invites you to do it. Other than providing more investment options for the average person, what is Robinhood doing that you believe is particularly egregious?
durnygbur 6y ago
> Honestly, I don't think we should knock Instagram for mental health issues, that's really up to the user. Instagram is a walk through a shopping mall where one is constantly trained to feel good or bad about certain actions and decisions. They have behavioral psychology and marketing specialists working and designing features against the user.
- dntrkv 6y ago
  You can make the same argument about HN. Also, in the past couple years, IG has rolled out functionality that does the opposite of what you suggest. e.g. They no longer prompt you with your "likes" notifications. I know they are AB testing removing "likes" from view, though not sure if that will get normalized. Other than the likes, what exactly are they doing that is designed against the user?

by dntrkv 6y ago

mbesto 6y ago

> You can't compare them to entities that only exist to cause harm. All of the entities I mentioned (including Robhinhood) have created a ton of wealth/jobs/income/etc. for a lot of people (easily 100k+ individuals). How do you reconcile that with "only exist to cause harm"?

dntrkv 6y ago
MLM has not created a ton of wealth, jobs, or income. It has done that for a select few, and robbed the majority of its victims. Instagram has provided immense value for millions not only in the ability to connect with others, but opportunities for photographers, videographers, actors, venues, musicians, and almost every other type of creative and small business, that they otherwise wouldn't have gotten. I know the prevailing view on HN is that social media is bad for society. I disagree. The amount of knowledge and experiences shared through social media has had a huge positive impact on the world, of course with it has come some negatives. But in general, through social media the world is now connected to a level where we can see what the real, on the ground experience is like in other places and events. I think this is key for bringing more empathy to the world, especially when it comes to relating to other people's struggles in places where most people don't really think about. I think as a society, we are in an adjustment phase with social media, and the internet in general.

bryananderson 6y ago

> Honestly, I don't think we should knock Instagram for mental health issues, that's really up to the user. Frankly, we know enough about human psychology to definitively say that this is not true, or at least not workable or useful. We know that different technologies provide environments with different affordances. They influence us to think, feel, and behave in different ways by providing different possibilities and making some of them more appealing or lower-effort than others. We are not simple automatons, but neither do we have unfettered free will as the Enlightenment philosophers conceived of it. Rather, we are unavoidably affected to some degree by our environment. We have well-known and easily exploitable cognitive biases and addictive triggers. Our underlying nature was always there, but different environments and different incentives can bring out the best or the worst of it. Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook bring out the worst. And it's not an accident: they consciously seek to leverage psychological research in order to addict us, be. Unfortunately, the things that addict us are fear, anxiety, envy, anger, tribalism, and self-loathing. Robinhood is analogous. They have created an easy, free, addictive way to ruin your life, and they profit handsomely from it. They aren't ignorant of how many people have lost everything, and they aren't innocent, because their product actively invites you to do it. It doesn't matter what the fine print says.

dntrkv 6y ago
> they consciously seek to leverage psychological research in order to addict us, be. Unfortunately, the things that addict us are fear, anxiety, envy, anger, tribalism, and self-loathing. Would you say HN does the same? Fear triggered through the many posts spreading FUD Anxiety triggered by that same FUD Envy triggered by posts about 18 year old prodigies / success by others Anger triggered by politics, tech choices, etc Tribalism triggered again by politics and tech choices Self-loathing triggered by seeing what others are capable of In my younger years, I experienced all of these feelings more from the likes of HN, than Instagram. Since I know that IG/FB/etc are fake representations of people's lives. HN on the other hand showed people's real accomplishments. In my opinion, this is a problem of the internet, not any particular social media app. We should be teaching children, and people in general, how to have a healthy online life. > They aren't ignorant of how many people have lost everything, and they aren't innocent, because their product actively invites you to do it. Other than providing more investment options for the average person, what is Robinhood doing that you believe is particularly egregious?

durnygbur 6y ago

> Honestly, I don't think we should knock Instagram for mental health issues, that's really up to the user. Instagram is a walk through a shopping mall where one is constantly trained to feel good or bad about certain actions and decisions. They have behavioral psychology and marketing specialists working and designing features against the user.

dntrkv 6y ago
You can make the same argument about HN. Also, in the past couple years, IG has rolled out functionality that does the opposite of what you suggest. e.g. They no longer prompt you with your "likes" notifications. I know they are AB testing removing "likes" from view, though not sure if that will get normalized. Other than the likes, what exactly are they doing that is designed against the user?