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How do you describe "far-right"? Edit: the reason I ask the question is that I've noticed a trend among people from very left-leaning areas to define anyone sl

How do you describe "far-right"? Edit: the reason I ask the question is that I've noticed a trend among people from very left-leaning areas to define anyone slightly right of center as being "far-right". I've been called "far-right" because of beliefs that were typical of moderate Democrats in the 1990s. What label that leaves for people like actual Nazis, fascists, neo-Confederates, etc, I'm not sure. Far-far-far right?

optimalsolver 6y ago
The enemy.
tharne 6y ago
Far right = Anything not explicitly aligned with the progressive wing of the Democratic Party. You're absolutely correct. The left has done to "far-right", what the right did to "communist/socialist". They've used the term to describe anything and everything that's not on their team as "far-right", to the point where the term is just another meaningless pejorative.
Dudelander 6y ago
Some views Moderate Democrats held in the 90s could be very far right, depending on the subject. Bill Clinton supported "Don't ask, don't tell" and the defense of marriage act. They were considered moderate in the 90s, but I would classify them as far right today. A moderate in the 1930s could literally have supported Fascism, and the "progressive" Woodrow Wilson supported the Klu Klux Klan. I'm not saying this applies to you, but "moderate XX years ago" is not an argument against something being far right.
- monoideism 6y ago
  Exactly. By your standards, Bill Clinton was "far right". Excellent example. For the record, I support civil rights protections for all humans, including gays on the basis on sexual orientation. I disagreed then with most of Bill Clinton's policies toward gay rights (I also strongly supported making marriage a uniquely civil institution vis-a-vis government recognition available to all citizens, like France). By the way, you know who else had that exact same views on gay rights as Bill Clinton when he entered office? Barack Obama. Was he "far right" in 2008?
  - tick_tock_tick 6y ago
    If you didn't say it was Obama and polled Democrat's based on his actions/views I'd be pretty confident they'd say "far right".
    - monoideism 6y ago
      I'm pretty sure you're right, particularly if you combined the socio-cultural views from his first term and the global military actions of the second. It's absolutely untethered how far much of the left has moved in 10-15 years. The right has also moved toward the right, but they're much less homogeneous in their beliefs. This is reflected in polls over time from Pew and others: https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/interactives/political-polarization-1994-2017/ https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/interactives/political-... (click "animate" to see to 2017).
- notsureaboutpg 6y ago
  >Bill Clinton supported "Don't ask, don't tell" and the defense of marriage act. They were considered moderate in the 90s, but I would classify them as far right today. Perfect example of why the question had to be asked. Most people in America would not consider those positions to be far-right today. Most immigrants to the US today would also have those positions if asked. Everyone in my parents' generation still has those views, and my generation is split on the issue. Don't ask don't tell and the Defense of Marriage act can coexist with a tolerant society. It's not "far-right" to believe that marriage is only between men and women and to still believe that LGBT people have the same rights as everyone else. EDIT: Further data. Pew says that in 2019(!) 49% of black Americans did not support extending marriage to LGBT people. Are 49% of black Americans far-right? Obviously not, but intellectual circles in the US have moved so far to the left that this is a serious statement they would make. (https://www.pewforum.org/fact-sheet/changing-attitudes-on-gay-marriage/ https://www.pewforum.org/fact-sheet/changing-attitudes-on-ga...)
AnotherGoodName 6y ago
We have a new lines drawn on acceptance for behavior towards sexuality, religion, women's rights and race since the 90's. The line has moved. The 90's was 30 years ago. I don't know your exact situation at all and criticism of you may indeed have been unfair. But for fucks sake don't try to make a case that you're not far-right by looking to the behavior of people in the past. That indicates strongly you may indeed have backwards views that are 30's years out of date.
- rendang 6y ago
  A belief that morality improves over time as you describe, aka whiggism/meliorism, is itself a kind of religious tenet of a particular set of worldviews (often called left, progressive etc). So I don't think one can say that rejecting that tenet places one outside of the Overton window of acceptability, while at the same time claiming tolerance of a wide range of viewpoints.
  - chiyc 6y ago
    Rejecting progressivism or meliorism of course doesn't place someone outside that window of acceptability by itself. It depends on what a person is clinging onto. And I think it's still fair for a person to claim tolerance of a wide range of viewpoints while rejecting positions that are bigoted or deemed unacceptable. For someone who rejects meliorism, what moment in human history is the correct frame for evaluating the world? Many social or religious conservatives positions today often overlook that certain perspectives they hold now were unacceptable a century ago. The use of contraceptives being one example.
    - zests 6y ago
      I feel like the thread of the conversation has been lost. The answer here is that "no frame" is correct. If you simply believe what is morally fashionable then you likely would have had very objectionable "far right" beliefs in the 90s. This is the premise of http://www.paulgraham.com/say.html http://www.paulgraham.com/say.html
macjohnmcc 6y ago
How about the nuts between San Antonio and Austin that tried to run the Biden/Harris bus off the road. There are plenty like them in Texas. I live here I know.
- monoideism 6y ago
  I don't know much about them - probably "right" and possessed with the same moral hysteria as the left. I'm not a Trump supporter or voter, if that's what you're trying to goad out of me.
  - macjohnmcc 6y ago
    I'm not trying to say you are anything not sure why you are taking it as an attack on you I was just stating that those people exist in Texas and aren't a quiet minority. I live here I have reference.
MeinBlutIstBlau 6y ago
I've been called far-right simply because I praised trump for a single executive order. The virtue signaling left has made it to the point that words don't mean what they should anymore because they crank things up to 100 every time they accuse anybody of anything.

optimalsolver 6y ago

The enemy.

tharne 6y ago

Far right = Anything not explicitly aligned with the progressive wing of the Democratic Party. You're absolutely correct. The left has done to "far-right", what the right did to "communist/socialist". They've used the term to describe anything and everything that's not on their team as "far-right", to the point where the term is just another meaningless pejorative.

Dudelander 6y ago

Some views Moderate Democrats held in the 90s could be very far right, depending on the subject. Bill Clinton supported "Don't ask, don't tell" and the defense of marriage act. They were considered moderate in the 90s, but I would classify them as far right today. A moderate in the 1930s could literally have supported Fascism, and the "progressive" Woodrow Wilson supported the Klu Klux Klan. I'm not saying this applies to you, but "moderate XX years ago" is not an argument against something being far right.

monoideism 6y ago
Exactly. By your standards, Bill Clinton was "far right". Excellent example. For the record, I support civil rights protections for all humans, including gays on the basis on sexual orientation. I disagreed then with most of Bill Clinton's policies toward gay rights (I also strongly supported making marriage a uniquely civil institution vis-a-vis government recognition available to all citizens, like France). By the way, you know who else had that exact same views on gay rights as Bill Clinton when he entered office? Barack Obama. Was he "far right" in 2008?
- tick_tock_tick 6y ago
  If you didn't say it was Obama and polled Democrat's based on his actions/views I'd be pretty confident they'd say "far right".
  - monoideism 6y ago
    I'm pretty sure you're right, particularly if you combined the socio-cultural views from his first term and the global military actions of the second. It's absolutely untethered how far much of the left has moved in 10-15 years. The right has also moved toward the right, but they're much less homogeneous in their beliefs. This is reflected in polls over time from Pew and others: https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/interactives/political-polarization-1994-2017/ https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/interactives/political-... (click "animate" to see to 2017).
notsureaboutpg 6y ago
>Bill Clinton supported "Don't ask, don't tell" and the defense of marriage act. They were considered moderate in the 90s, but I would classify them as far right today. Perfect example of why the question had to be asked. Most people in America would not consider those positions to be far-right today. Most immigrants to the US today would also have those positions if asked. Everyone in my parents' generation still has those views, and my generation is split on the issue. Don't ask don't tell and the Defense of Marriage act can coexist with a tolerant society. It's not "far-right" to believe that marriage is only between men and women and to still believe that LGBT people have the same rights as everyone else. EDIT: Further data. Pew says that in 2019(!) 49% of black Americans did not support extending marriage to LGBT people. Are 49% of black Americans far-right? Obviously not, but intellectual circles in the US have moved so far to the left that this is a serious statement they would make. (https://www.pewforum.org/fact-sheet/changing-attitudes-on-gay-marriage/ https://www.pewforum.org/fact-sheet/changing-attitudes-on-ga...)

AnotherGoodName 6y ago

We have a new lines drawn on acceptance for behavior towards sexuality, religion, women's rights and race since the 90's. The line has moved. The 90's was 30 years ago. I don't know your exact situation at all and criticism of you may indeed have been unfair. But for fucks sake don't try to make a case that you're not far-right by looking to the behavior of people in the past. That indicates strongly you may indeed have backwards views that are 30's years out of date.

rendang 6y ago
A belief that morality improves over time as you describe, aka whiggism/meliorism, is itself a kind of religious tenet of a particular set of worldviews (often called left, progressive etc). So I don't think one can say that rejecting that tenet places one outside of the Overton window of acceptability, while at the same time claiming tolerance of a wide range of viewpoints.
- chiyc 6y ago
  Rejecting progressivism or meliorism of course doesn't place someone outside that window of acceptability by itself. It depends on what a person is clinging onto. And I think it's still fair for a person to claim tolerance of a wide range of viewpoints while rejecting positions that are bigoted or deemed unacceptable. For someone who rejects meliorism, what moment in human history is the correct frame for evaluating the world? Many social or religious conservatives positions today often overlook that certain perspectives they hold now were unacceptable a century ago. The use of contraceptives being one example.
  - zests 6y ago
    I feel like the thread of the conversation has been lost. The answer here is that "no frame" is correct. If you simply believe what is morally fashionable then you likely would have had very objectionable "far right" beliefs in the 90s. This is the premise of http://www.paulgraham.com/say.html http://www.paulgraham.com/say.html

macjohnmcc 6y ago

How about the nuts between San Antonio and Austin that tried to run the Biden/Harris bus off the road. There are plenty like them in Texas. I live here I know.

monoideism 6y ago
I don't know much about them - probably "right" and possessed with the same moral hysteria as the left. I'm not a Trump supporter or voter, if that's what you're trying to goad out of me.
- macjohnmcc 6y ago
  I'm not trying to say you are anything not sure why you are taking it as an attack on you I was just stating that those people exist in Texas and aren't a quiet minority. I live here I have reference.

MeinBlutIstBlau 6y ago

I've been called far-right simply because I praised trump for a single executive order. The virtue signaling left has made it to the point that words don't mean what they should anymore because they crank things up to 100 every time they accuse anybody of anything.