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I wish public rhetoric was less combative/twitter-like and more collaborative. Elon has built incredible companies doing incredible things. He's also made some

I wish public rhetoric was less combative/twitter-like and more collaborative. Elon has built incredible companies doing incredible things. He's also made some stupid comments re: covid. SV political hostility towards technology companies and employees is frustrating. I wish the government was more aligned with helping these companies grow and things weren't treated as if they were so zero-sum (when they're not). I also wish the taxes weren't so extreme (including state capital gains tax). I wish there was more housing supply so cost of living wasn't so high and the focus was on increasing supply rather than band-aids that provide short-term relief, but make things worse long-term (rent control, price controlled units). The "Fuck Elon Musk" tweet from a politician is dumb and makes this kind of thing worse, why can't people in government behave better than this? If we could coordinate better we could do so much more. It's just frustrating to me.

deleted 6y ago
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logicslave 6y ago
"Elon has built incredible companies doing incredible things. He's also made some stupid comments re: covid." I hope you see theres an issue with statements like this. Its hard for someone to be so competent in terms of founding multiple billion+ companies, and then be completely wrong on covid.
- Izikiel43 6y ago
  Being a genius in something doesn't make you a genius on everything. https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/13/health/james-watson-honors-stripped-intl/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/13/health/james-watson-honors-st...
  - logicslave 6y ago
    I hate to tell you, but if you conceive of multiple billion dollar companies, you have an exceptional grasp on reality. CNN is the thought police.
- fossuser 6y ago
  “Eppur si muove” It’s not that hard - people are wildly inconsistent in views and accuracy. Someone can be contrarian and correct in one area and contrarian and wrong in another. In fact I’d bet if you are more independently minded then you’re more likely to be very wrong in some categories since you’ve succeeded mostly by ignoring convention and thinking independently. Most of the time this works, but sometimes you’re wrong and the consensus is right.
  - logicslave 6y ago
    Not really. This kind of thinking is an attempt to tear down and discredit people who are capable of challenging a brainwashed narrative. Clearly elon musk has an incredibly strong grasp on reality. Just because his political leanings go against yours doesn't mean you can discredit him.
    - fossuser 6y ago
      It's not a political view - tweets about Covid being over by April were just objectively wrong. Along with tweets about it not being that serious. https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1240754657263144960 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1240754657263144960 I'd suspect he'd admit as much at this point. It was a bad prediction. There have been an enormous amount of cases since then and many have died. I'm an Elon Musk fan, but on this issue he was wrong.
danans 6y ago
In general, you are right, the Twitter-sphere is a cancer on civilized discussion. That said, Elon Musk is an active participant and influencer of "F*ck X" culture on Twitter, so he hardly gets a pass when others use that same rhetoric on him. > why can't people in government behave better than this? Likewise, why can't Elon Musk behave better? The answer: Acting the way he does publicly is part of his marketing tactic.
- fossuser 6y ago
  Yeah I agree on both counts. I do think people in government should be held to a higher standard. If only for the public’s benefit.
  - resu_nimda 6y ago
    The second richest person in the world should arguably be held to an even higher standard, also for the benefit of the public. I say this as a huge fan of Elon's companies. But dude, just pay your damn taxes.
11thEarlOfMar 6y ago
I'm an optimist and forward looking person at heart. But the last couple of years have made me cynical enough that I researched the 'most free' country in the world as an expatriate destination[0]. We are witnessing super-wealthy individuals, I think the word is oligarch, use their out-sized wealth to advance causes outside of the domain that made them wealthy. Obvious examples include Bill Gates advancing world health, Mark Zuckerberg funding Freedom of Expression initiatives, and Soros' Open Society Foundations. These initiatives can be impactful simply based on the resources supporting them. For example, LinkedIn reports 1,100 people currently working for Open Society Foundations. That number would require an annual budget in the realm of $200,000,000. The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation shows 2,500 people working. Both Soros and Gates could easily fund those workforces out of their passive income. Certainly, we've had relatively super-wealthy persons in the past. What's new is the reach that these current oligarchs can leverage. Their wealth is drawn from a global revenue, their workforces can easily travel globally, and they can promote their message globally using the Internet and Web, which have supplanted both the print and radio media that earlier oligarchs were confined to. Whether or not you see this as a threat, my take is that I did not vote for Gates as world health oligarch or Soros as societal transformation oligarch, but they have taken those mantles on themselves. Whether for better or worse, I didn't have a say, but they can impose their initiatives on me. That bothers me. [0] https://www.cato.org/human-freedom-index-new https://www.cato.org/human-freedom-index-new
- aglavine 6y ago
  I trust Gates way more than government.
- anchpop 6y ago
  As long as you have a properly functioning government that’s resistant to bribery and corruption, these initiatives can’t hurt you. The phrase “world health oligarch” sounds scary but what that looks like is Gates paying people to research sanitation and disease prevention. It’s not like he’s taking over the NHS.
justapassenger 6y ago
> SV political hostility towards technology companies and employees is frustrating. I wish the government was more aligned with helping these companies grow Did you check how well those companies actually grew, dominated markets and made their employees millionaires? Sure, not everything is perfect and aligned to their liking, but calling a place that still actively creating biggest tech companies in the world a hostile place for them is a stretch at best.
- fossuser 6y ago
  It’s a mixed bag - a lot of stuff is really great (non-competes are illegal, at will employment, etc.) The political rhetoric of the area is hostile to technology companies and employees though. A lot of blame is put on the tech industry for whatever problem is being discussed. For example employees and tech companies are blamed for high housing costs because new jobs lead to more people living here (rather than blaming policy that restricts supply). AB5 is hostile to ride sharing companies and was written mostly to target them. This kind of blame comes up for pretty much everything.
  - justapassenger 6y ago
    As I said, not everything is perfect, but let’s keep things in a perspective. It’s still the place that’s generating multiple billion dollars companies year, and turns lots of people into millionaires. It’s hard to find anywhere else in the world, where sum of all things is so friendly towards tech. Of course, a lot of that isn’t because of government (or even, despite their actions) but complaining how horrible it’s for tech companies in SV is so detached from reality like billionaires complaining that they need to pay extra few % in taxes.
    - fossuser 6y ago
      Yeah - I think we’re actually in agreement? It’s possible you read my initial comment as more extreme than I intended. I just think there’s more opportunity for collaboration - the stance I often see/hear/read about is combative. Tech companies vs. local politics. Local politicians vs. tech companies, etc. It’d be nice if there was less of this and more working towards shared goals.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

logicslave 6y ago

"Elon has built incredible companies doing incredible things. He's also made some stupid comments re: covid." I hope you see theres an issue with statements like this. Its hard for someone to be so competent in terms of founding multiple billion+ companies, and then be completely wrong on covid.

Izikiel43 6y ago
Being a genius in something doesn't make you a genius on everything. https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/13/health/james-watson-honors-stripped-intl/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/13/health/james-watson-honors-st...
- logicslave 6y ago
  I hate to tell you, but if you conceive of multiple billion dollar companies, you have an exceptional grasp on reality. CNN is the thought police.
fossuser 6y ago
“Eppur si muove” It’s not that hard - people are wildly inconsistent in views and accuracy. Someone can be contrarian and correct in one area and contrarian and wrong in another. In fact I’d bet if you are more independently minded then you’re more likely to be very wrong in some categories since you’ve succeeded mostly by ignoring convention and thinking independently. Most of the time this works, but sometimes you’re wrong and the consensus is right.
- logicslave 6y ago
  Not really. This kind of thinking is an attempt to tear down and discredit people who are capable of challenging a brainwashed narrative. Clearly elon musk has an incredibly strong grasp on reality. Just because his political leanings go against yours doesn't mean you can discredit him.
  - fossuser 6y ago
    It's not a political view - tweets about Covid being over by April were just objectively wrong. Along with tweets about it not being that serious. https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1240754657263144960 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1240754657263144960 I'd suspect he'd admit as much at this point. It was a bad prediction. There have been an enormous amount of cases since then and many have died. I'm an Elon Musk fan, but on this issue he was wrong.

danans 6y ago

In general, you are right, the Twitter-sphere is a cancer on civilized discussion. That said, Elon Musk is an active participant and influencer of "F*ck X" culture on Twitter, so he hardly gets a pass when others use that same rhetoric on him. > why can't people in government behave better than this? Likewise, why can't Elon Musk behave better? The answer: Acting the way he does publicly is part of his marketing tactic.

fossuser 6y ago
Yeah I agree on both counts. I do think people in government should be held to a higher standard. If only for the public’s benefit.
- resu_nimda 6y ago
  The second richest person in the world should arguably be held to an even higher standard, also for the benefit of the public. I say this as a huge fan of Elon's companies. But dude, just pay your damn taxes.

11thEarlOfMar 6y ago

I'm an optimist and forward looking person at heart. But the last couple of years have made me cynical enough that I researched the 'most free' country in the world as an expatriate destination[0]. We are witnessing super-wealthy individuals, I think the word is oligarch, use their out-sized wealth to advance causes outside of the domain that made them wealthy. Obvious examples include Bill Gates advancing world health, Mark Zuckerberg funding Freedom of Expression initiatives, and Soros' Open Society Foundations. These initiatives can be impactful simply based on the resources supporting them. For example, LinkedIn reports 1,100 people currently working for Open Society Foundations. That number would require an annual budget in the realm of $200,000,000. The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation shows 2,500 people working. Both Soros and Gates could easily fund those workforces out of their passive income. Certainly, we've had relatively super-wealthy persons in the past. What's new is the reach that these current oligarchs can leverage. Their wealth is drawn from a global revenue, their workforces can easily travel globally, and they can promote their message globally using the Internet and Web, which have supplanted both the print and radio media that earlier oligarchs were confined to. Whether or not you see this as a threat, my take is that I did not vote for Gates as world health oligarch or Soros as societal transformation oligarch, but they have taken those mantles on themselves. Whether for better or worse, I didn't have a say, but they can impose their initiatives on me. That bothers me. [0] https://www.cato.org/human-freedom-index-new https://www.cato.org/human-freedom-index-new

aglavine 6y ago
I trust Gates way more than government.
anchpop 6y ago
As long as you have a properly functioning government that’s resistant to bribery and corruption, these initiatives can’t hurt you. The phrase “world health oligarch” sounds scary but what that looks like is Gates paying people to research sanitation and disease prevention. It’s not like he’s taking over the NHS.

justapassenger 6y ago

> SV political hostility towards technology companies and employees is frustrating. I wish the government was more aligned with helping these companies grow Did you check how well those companies actually grew, dominated markets and made their employees millionaires? Sure, not everything is perfect and aligned to their liking, but calling a place that still actively creating biggest tech companies in the world a hostile place for them is a stretch at best.

fossuser 6y ago
It’s a mixed bag - a lot of stuff is really great (non-competes are illegal, at will employment, etc.) The political rhetoric of the area is hostile to technology companies and employees though. A lot of blame is put on the tech industry for whatever problem is being discussed. For example employees and tech companies are blamed for high housing costs because new jobs lead to more people living here (rather than blaming policy that restricts supply). AB5 is hostile to ride sharing companies and was written mostly to target them. This kind of blame comes up for pretty much everything.
- justapassenger 6y ago
  As I said, not everything is perfect, but let’s keep things in a perspective. It’s still the place that’s generating multiple billion dollars companies year, and turns lots of people into millionaires. It’s hard to find anywhere else in the world, where sum of all things is so friendly towards tech. Of course, a lot of that isn’t because of government (or even, despite their actions) but complaining how horrible it’s for tech companies in SV is so detached from reality like billionaires complaining that they need to pay extra few % in taxes.
  - fossuser 6y ago
    Yeah - I think we’re actually in agreement? It’s possible you read my initial comment as more extreme than I intended. I just think there’s more opportunity for collaboration - the stance I often see/hear/read about is combative. Tech companies vs. local politics. Local politicians vs. tech companies, etc. It’d be nice if there was less of this and more working towards shared goals.