8 ms·

>>the English language can become the lingua franca with less resistance as it is no ones language(Well, there are the Irish but it's a small country). Malta a

>>the English language can become the lingua franca with less resistance as it is no ones language(Well, there are the Irish but it's a small country). Malta also has English as an official language, though again, it's an even smaller country. On the other hand, in neither Ireland or Malta is English the "first" official language.

rorykoehler 6y ago
Every country should make English their second official language like Ireland and Malta.
- mrtksn 6y ago
  That would be fantastic, like choosing English from the menu when your native language is not supported in the app.
romanoderoma 6y ago
English isn't an official EU language anymore, the only country that chose it was UK. https://www.politico.eu/article/english-will-not-be-an-official-eu-language-after-brexit-senior-mep/ https://www.politico.eu/article/english-will-not-be-an-offic...
- silon42 6y ago
  Should use US/EU English instead.
- m000 6y ago
  Do you have any references of English actually being phased-out in EU? The Politico article was written just a few days after the Brexit referendum, and 4 years later I can only take it for empty sabre-rattling.
  - dragonelite 6y ago
    Either make french or german the language of diplomacy wouldn't be the first time in history that was done.
    - Tsiklon 6y ago
      Proposing either of those two as a lingua franca (irony aside), would be a sure fire way to start an enormous argument in the EU. Surprisingly with the UK out of the EU; English is perhaps best placed to fill this role, as it is now a "neutral" language, with only the Irish and Maltese contingents who, broadly speaking, don't wield the same influence as France and Germany.
    - Rick1 6y ago
      Legally it could be done, but not practically since English is the language we actually use to communicate.
    - GoblinSlayer 6y ago
      Greek is the most iconic european language.
  - pompeirules 6y ago
    > Do you have any references of English actually being phased-out in EU? It's not clear yet if it will be used in official documents after Brexit agreements will be signed, but UK was the only country who chose English as an official language. There's an hard requirement in EU to translate every official document in every language spoken in the EU, if English is not an official language, that requirement will cease to exist and slowly there will be no official document in English anymore because it's also a very costly operation. Unless Ireland or Malta apply for English as primary language. It's also a political stand, Macron is pushing to use French more and more in the EU institutions. It doesn't mean that it won't be taught in schools or that it will fade as the most spoken language in EU, it still is by a large margin, but that it will move away from UK English and will become more similar to the English 75% of the > 1 billion English speakers in the World speak as a second language. Native English speakers not understanding or not being understood by non-native speakers it's already a thing, the gap could widen in the future.
nixass 6y ago
While Irish/Gaelic language is a thing it's mostly ceremonial and people on the street know it poorly, with no knowledge to even superficial conversation. Irish language has no use in Ireland. Even tho it is "official", it's useless
- dbspin 6y ago
  Just want to confirm this as an Irish person. The language is of symbolic / nationalist importance only. It's not used in everyday life except by hobbyists or residents of a few tiny 'gaeltacht' areas. In other words, English is in practice the first language of virtually every Irish person, the vast majority of media, and all business in the country.
  - Brakenshire 6y ago
    Out of interest, what’s the trend in that? Is it fading out or increasing?
    - deaddodo 6y ago
      Fading. There have been major pushes to try to make it significant again but, as mentioned above, most Irish speak English daily with little change in that trend. The Gaeltacht will probably keep it going for many decades, though; which is/was not the case for Scottish Gaelic (which is in a much more precarious position).
- s_dev 6y ago
  I don't agree it's "useless" but I can see your point. We don't learn it for commerce or for historical/cultural insight. We learn it to know who were are. Imagine telling a bunch of Jews that Hebrew was a load of nonsense and they're better off learning German, French or Spanish. I would agree though that the level of spoken Irish amongst the general population of Ireland is poor. For them it's not about more opportunities it's about preserving something meaningful. Tír gan teanga, tír gan anam.
  - 6y ago
eecc 6y ago
Malta used to be an UK colony, hardly surprising. Problem is more the cultural divide between Germanic and Latin ethics that continental Europe is split across... although Germany itself is heavily Catholic and is paradoxically the least German of all the northern lot. (Not sure if I explained myself good enough)
- corty 6y ago
  Germany is roughly 1/3 catholic (south and west predominantly), 1/3 protestant (north) and 1/3 atheist (east). Regional specifications are very rough, often there is actually a village-by-village variation between catholic and protestant due to cuius regio eius religio in the middle ages. Atheism/agnosticism/dontcare is on the rise roughly everywhere, but has a head start in the east/GDR due to GDR politics. And I guess you mean to say germany has gone farthest in christianisation, with the least of old german or old norse cultural remains? I guess that might be true.
  - flohofwoe 6y ago
    > 1/3 protestant (north) and 1/3 atheist (east) I'd put the entire east into the protestant bucket too. Berlin might be a special case because it was traditionally "draft dodgers" in the western part and "exemplary GDR citizens" in the eastern part, but especially in the more remote parts religions has survived the GDR (and was even somewhat tolerated later on by the regime - even thought the supression and surveillance of the church never stopped until the end).

rorykoehler 6y ago

Every country should make English their second official language like Ireland and Malta.

mrtksn 6y ago
That would be fantastic, like choosing English from the menu when your native language is not supported in the app.

romanoderoma 6y ago

English isn't an official EU language anymore, the only country that chose it was UK. https://www.politico.eu/article/english-will-not-be-an-official-eu-language-after-brexit-senior-mep/ https://www.politico.eu/article/english-will-not-be-an-offic...

silon42 6y ago
Should use US/EU English instead.
m000 6y ago
Do you have any references of English actually being phased-out in EU? The Politico article was written just a few days after the Brexit referendum, and 4 years later I can only take it for empty sabre-rattling.
- dragonelite 6y ago
  Either make french or german the language of diplomacy wouldn't be the first time in history that was done.
  - Tsiklon 6y ago
    Proposing either of those two as a lingua franca (irony aside), would be a sure fire way to start an enormous argument in the EU. Surprisingly with the UK out of the EU; English is perhaps best placed to fill this role, as it is now a "neutral" language, with only the Irish and Maltese contingents who, broadly speaking, don't wield the same influence as France and Germany.
  - Rick1 6y ago
    Legally it could be done, but not practically since English is the language we actually use to communicate.
  - GoblinSlayer 6y ago
    Greek is the most iconic european language.
- pompeirules 6y ago
  > Do you have any references of English actually being phased-out in EU? It's not clear yet if it will be used in official documents after Brexit agreements will be signed, but UK was the only country who chose English as an official language. There's an hard requirement in EU to translate every official document in every language spoken in the EU, if English is not an official language, that requirement will cease to exist and slowly there will be no official document in English anymore because it's also a very costly operation. Unless Ireland or Malta apply for English as primary language. It's also a political stand, Macron is pushing to use French more and more in the EU institutions. It doesn't mean that it won't be taught in schools or that it will fade as the most spoken language in EU, it still is by a large margin, but that it will move away from UK English and will become more similar to the English 75% of the > 1 billion English speakers in the World speak as a second language. Native English speakers not understanding or not being understood by non-native speakers it's already a thing, the gap could widen in the future.

nixass 6y ago

While Irish/Gaelic language is a thing it's mostly ceremonial and people on the street know it poorly, with no knowledge to even superficial conversation. Irish language has no use in Ireland. Even tho it is "official", it's useless

dbspin 6y ago
Just want to confirm this as an Irish person. The language is of symbolic / nationalist importance only. It's not used in everyday life except by hobbyists or residents of a few tiny 'gaeltacht' areas. In other words, English is in practice the first language of virtually every Irish person, the vast majority of media, and all business in the country.
- Brakenshire 6y ago
  Out of interest, what’s the trend in that? Is it fading out or increasing?
  - deaddodo 6y ago
    Fading. There have been major pushes to try to make it significant again but, as mentioned above, most Irish speak English daily with little change in that trend. The Gaeltacht will probably keep it going for many decades, though; which is/was not the case for Scottish Gaelic (which is in a much more precarious position).
s_dev 6y ago
I don't agree it's "useless" but I can see your point. We don't learn it for commerce or for historical/cultural insight. We learn it to know who were are. Imagine telling a bunch of Jews that Hebrew was a load of nonsense and they're better off learning German, French or Spanish. I would agree though that the level of spoken Irish amongst the general population of Ireland is poor. For them it's not about more opportunities it's about preserving something meaningful. Tír gan teanga, tír gan anam.
- 6y ago

eecc 6y ago

Malta used to be an UK colony, hardly surprising. Problem is more the cultural divide between Germanic and Latin ethics that continental Europe is split across... although Germany itself is heavily Catholic and is paradoxically the least German of all the northern lot. (Not sure if I explained myself good enough)

corty 6y ago
Germany is roughly 1/3 catholic (south and west predominantly), 1/3 protestant (north) and 1/3 atheist (east). Regional specifications are very rough, often there is actually a village-by-village variation between catholic and protestant due to cuius regio eius religio in the middle ages. Atheism/agnosticism/dontcare is on the rise roughly everywhere, but has a head start in the east/GDR due to GDR politics. And I guess you mean to say germany has gone farthest in christianisation, with the least of old german or old norse cultural remains? I guess that might be true.
- flohofwoe 6y ago
  > 1/3 protestant (north) and 1/3 atheist (east) I'd put the entire east into the protestant bucket too. Berlin might be a special case because it was traditionally "draft dodgers" in the western part and "exemplary GDR citizens" in the eastern part, but especially in the more remote parts religions has survived the GDR (and was even somewhat tolerated later on by the regime - even thought the supression and surveillance of the church never stopped until the end).