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Probably the biggest takeaway is, in jurisdictions that permit it, "record all your conversations at work, encrypt them, and hope you never need them." She wou

Probably the biggest takeaway is, in jurisdictions that permit it, "record all your conversations at work, encrypt them, and hope you never need them." She would be in a totally different situation if she had a tape of Tesla's AGC threatening her friends through their immigration status. That is straight up mafia tactics. Brings to mind this case [1]. [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-29388019 https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-29388019

frereubu 6y ago
That presumes you're in a legal jurisdiction where one-party consent is allowed for recording conversations doesn't it? Otherwise it would be inadmissible.
- giantg2 6y ago
  Yep. Based on the article, it sounds like the criminal act that Tesla is accusing her of is unlawful recording.
  - rmrfstar 6y ago
    It's a solid point, and I've updated my comment accordingly.
- bambax 6y ago
  Inadmissible in court, but you can always leak to the press and see what happens.
  - vmception 6y ago
    Not only inadmissible, but can incur criminal liability as well, such as in California. With criminal statutes, it significantly raises the bar about how to "leak" something to the press, the press who needs to verify the source and can be subpoena'd for records.
    - lazide 6y ago
      It's actually a bit backwards. A private person recording someone illegally is a crime. In some circumstances (for instance to prove a witness in lying), it can still be admissable. [ref https://www.stimmel-law.com/en/articles/secret-recording-conversations-california-crime#:~:text=Under%20restricted%20circumstances%2C%20even%20an,prevent%20perjury%20of%20a%20witness https://www.stimmel-law.com/en/articles/secret-recording-con....] Now is it is worth admitting to a crime that can carry fines of up to $2,500 and/or imprisonment for up to a year (misdemeanor) is a hefty question. In addition, the violator may be subject to civil liability in the amount of $5,000 or three times the amount of any actual damages sustained as a result. If this was a lawsuit due to serious, career ending malfeasance against you, where a key witness would be trivially proven a liar and you could end up with millions in a settlement? Maybe? Could they turn around and sue you for 3x the settlement? Sounds like you'd want to talk to a lawyer first. Not happening most of the time though.
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  - bambax 6y ago
    At the risk of attracting more downvotes, I persist. The problem with corporate malfeasance and bullying, of which Elon Musk seems to be a specialist, is that people are afraid to retaliate. We shouldn't be afraid. I personally sued big corporations, as an individual, two times, and won. Granted, this was in Europe, not the US, but the warnings and hand-waving of people telling me one should never do that were similar. If you care enough about the issue, and don't care much about the risks, which are usually wildly exaggerated, the odds are actually in your favor.
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    - frereubu 6y ago
      The point here was specifically about secretly recording converations in a jurisdiction where that is illegal. If you'd tried to use recordings like that in your two suits against big coporations, they would have been thrown out by the judge and you would have put yourself at risk of criminal prosecution into the bargain.
giantg2 6y ago
This advice to record things can be dangerous. Laws vary from state to state. Recording someone secretly could be a felony. The article suggests that unlawful recording is the criminal act that Tesla is alleging she committed.

frereubu 6y ago

That presumes you're in a legal jurisdiction where one-party consent is allowed for recording conversations doesn't it? Otherwise it would be inadmissible.

giantg2 6y ago
Yep. Based on the article, it sounds like the criminal act that Tesla is accusing her of is unlawful recording.
- rmrfstar 6y ago
  It's a solid point, and I've updated my comment accordingly.
bambax 6y ago
Inadmissible in court, but you can always leak to the press and see what happens.
- vmception 6y ago
  Not only inadmissible, but can incur criminal liability as well, such as in California. With criminal statutes, it significantly raises the bar about how to "leak" something to the press, the press who needs to verify the source and can be subpoena'd for records.
  - lazide 6y ago
    It's actually a bit backwards. A private person recording someone illegally is a crime. In some circumstances (for instance to prove a witness in lying), it can still be admissable. [ref https://www.stimmel-law.com/en/articles/secret-recording-conversations-california-crime#:~:text=Under%20restricted%20circumstances%2C%20even%20an,prevent%20perjury%20of%20a%20witness https://www.stimmel-law.com/en/articles/secret-recording-con....] Now is it is worth admitting to a crime that can carry fines of up to $2,500 and/or imprisonment for up to a year (misdemeanor) is a hefty question. In addition, the violator may be subject to civil liability in the amount of $5,000 or three times the amount of any actual damages sustained as a result. If this was a lawsuit due to serious, career ending malfeasance against you, where a key witness would be trivially proven a liar and you could end up with millions in a settlement? Maybe? Could they turn around and sue you for 3x the settlement? Sounds like you'd want to talk to a lawyer first. Not happening most of the time though.
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- bambax 6y ago
  At the risk of attracting more downvotes, I persist. The problem with corporate malfeasance and bullying, of which Elon Musk seems to be a specialist, is that people are afraid to retaliate. We shouldn't be afraid. I personally sued big corporations, as an individual, two times, and won. Granted, this was in Europe, not the US, but the warnings and hand-waving of people telling me one should never do that were similar. If you care enough about the issue, and don't care much about the risks, which are usually wildly exaggerated, the odds are actually in your favor.
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  - frereubu 6y ago
    The point here was specifically about secretly recording converations in a jurisdiction where that is illegal. If you'd tried to use recordings like that in your two suits against big coporations, they would have been thrown out by the judge and you would have put yourself at risk of criminal prosecution into the bargain.

giantg2 6y ago

This advice to record things can be dangerous. Laws vary from state to state. Recording someone secretly could be a felony. The article suggests that unlawful recording is the criminal act that Tesla is alleging she committed.