6 ms·

"if someone can suffer the US' shitty conditions, " So crap, that people around the world are fighting to get in, what for those jobs that pay 2-3x, and real e

by jariel 6y ago

"if someone can suffer the US' shitty conditions, " So crap, that people around the world are fighting to get in, what for those jobs that pay 2-3x, and real exciting projects to work on, and for the most part people that actually don't care about your funny accent. It's unwise to discount one of the US's fundamental, perennial and systematic advantages as somehow a drawback. Like it or not - the US has been sucking in global talent since it's inception.

adrianN 6y ago
Many companies are specifically opening engineering offices in Europe because it keeps getting harder to attract foreign talent to the US.
claudeganon 6y ago
Some people prefer to live in societies with some semblance of basic humanity, where people don't go bankrupt and die from treatable illnesses. Or are just generally more rational than the average American.
- jariel 6y ago
  This is clearly bigotry, it's really not appropriate. (FYI, I'm not an American - though I've lived in a few states, and also in two major European countries for quite some time, including having worked for a branch of the EU government.)
  - jason0597 6y ago
    >including having worked for a branch of the EU government. I'm a bit confused. There is no "EU government". There are EU institutions and EU bodies, but there isn't a central government in the EU.
- yostrovs 6y ago
  "semblance of basic humanity"... Obviously you have your own metric on that. The United States takes in more immigrants than any other nation and has done this for hundreds of years. You just have hate within you and it shows.
  - claudeganon 6y ago
    I know. My mother was an immigrant to the US. I've also seen family members go broke and commit suicide after being unable to afford medical care that would otherwise would have been provided to them in more humane countries. Apologies if this colors my view of America's "humanity."
    - yostrovs 6y ago
      It's always about health insurance. It's the one defining characteristic of nations. The narrow mindedness is incredible.
      - claudeganon 6y ago
        I'm not sure what you're talking about, but watching someone who worked very hard their whole entire lives be blamed for their misfortune, humiliated, and denied access to treatment by the American system of benefits (not just healthcare, this included disability and other services) doesn't result in narrow-mindedness. It results in an accurate appraisal of what is happening to poor people in this country every day. You can find plenty of news stories, just post-pandemic, about people treated similarly by unemployment benefits systems that were designed to be punitive instead of helping people in need. If those realities are uncomfortable for you and you want to dismiss them, that's perfectly fine, but these stories are out there in plain sight, across the US, for you to observe.
      - FeepingCreature 6y ago
        Health is kind of important.
      - joelbluminator 6y ago
        Totally, I mean who cares about health right?
      - jason0597 6y ago
        It's not narrow mindedness. The healthcare system in the US can destroy you financially in a couple of years (or even months!), even if you do all the right things and work a job with a good salary, save, etc. All for what? For being unlucky and contracting cancer? For having a chronic disease that needs daily medication? Is that what sick people deserve, to have all their finances wiped away? This here is a very famous comment on Reddit that perfectly encapsulates what's wrong with the healthcare system in America: https://old.reddit.com/r/ABoringDystopia/comments/hj6t3t/nothing_new_under_the_sky/fwl8aom/ https://old.reddit.com/r/ABoringDystopia/comments/hj6t3t/not...
- dang 6y ago
  We've banned this account for political, ideological, and nationalistic flamewar. That's not what this site is for and we asked you repeatedly to stop. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
bildung 6y ago
You have to look which countries people are actually migrating from. Net migration to the US from the richer EU countries is about 0, i.e. about the same number of US citizens are moving into the EU as are moving from those EU countries into the US.
- jariel 6y ago
  "You have to look which countries people are actually migrating from." This is a misunderstanding. 'Wealthy' people tend to not migrate anywhere, even America. Amazingly talented and hard working Asians are coming to America in droves, which is a massive source of competitive wellbeing. Google, Microsoft, Adobe etc. filling up the ranks with E. and SE. Asians at maybe 33% of their staff in SV for example.
- TMWNN 6y ago
  >Net migration to the US from the richer EU countries is about 0, i.e. about the same number of US citizens are moving into the EU as are moving from those EU countries into the US. Not true. 10-17% of Canadian, British, Australian, and Swiss scientists move to the US. (https://np.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/37lgxg/the_global_brain_trade/ https://np.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/37lgxg/the_...) These are percentages of all researchers, whether they emigrate anywhere or not. (By contrast, only 5% of US scientists leave theiir country.) Among the general population, there are 824,000 Britons living in the US, compared to 159,000 Americans living in Britain. Given that the US's population is about five times that of Britain's, that means that on a per-capita basis a Briton is 25 times more likely to move to the US than an American is to move to Britain. Of course fewer Europeans migrate to the US than in the 19th and early 20th centuries, or compared to Latin American countries today, but they still come and the net flows are still considerably in the US's favor. There are 1.2 million German-born people living in the US, for example, versus only 150,000 American-born people living in Germany, although the US has four times Germany's population. Sweden and Norway? 15,000 Americans in each, compared to 54,000 Swedes and 36,000 Norwegians in the US. Sweden has 10 million people—the size of Los Angeles County—so there would have to be 1.62 million Americans living there to match those going the other way on a per-capita basis. There are 49,000 Swiss born in the US, compared to 24,000 American born in Switzerland. The US's population is about 37 times larger, so a Swiss is 75 times more likely to move to the US than the other way around. There are 71,000 people born in Austria living in the US compared to 7,700 Americans in Austria, implying that an Austrian is more than 300 times (!) more likely to move to the US. Same with non-European countries; for example, 945,000 Canadians in the US versus 279,000 Americans in Canada. Since the US's population is nine times that of Canada's, on a per-capita basis a Canadian is 27 times more likely to move to the US than the other way around. Yes, the US has a nicer climate than Canada, but this is consistent with other Anglosphere countries; 75,000 Australians and 26,000 New Zealanders are in the US compared to 54,000 Americans in Australia and 13,000 in New Zealand, respectively, so on a per-capita basis Australians are about 20 times more likely to move to the US and New Zealanders an amazing 140 times. Etc., etc. (All data comes from Migration DRC (http://www.migrationdrc.org/research/typesofmigration/global_migrant_origin_database.html); http://www.migrationdrc.org/research/typesofmigration/global... see table 4. Military forces are excluded. A less-detailed graphical version (http://migrationsmap.net/#/USA/arrivals http://migrationsmap.net/#/USA/arrivals) is also available.)

by jariel 6y ago

adrianN 6y ago

Many companies are specifically opening engineering offices in Europe because it keeps getting harder to attract foreign talent to the US.

claudeganon 6y ago

Some people prefer to live in societies with some semblance of basic humanity, where people don't go bankrupt and die from treatable illnesses. Or are just generally more rational than the average American.

jariel 6y ago
This is clearly bigotry, it's really not appropriate. (FYI, I'm not an American - though I've lived in a few states, and also in two major European countries for quite some time, including having worked for a branch of the EU government.)
- jason0597 6y ago
  >including having worked for a branch of the EU government. I'm a bit confused. There is no "EU government". There are EU institutions and EU bodies, but there isn't a central government in the EU.
yostrovs 6y ago
"semblance of basic humanity"... Obviously you have your own metric on that. The United States takes in more immigrants than any other nation and has done this for hundreds of years. You just have hate within you and it shows.
- claudeganon 6y ago
  I know. My mother was an immigrant to the US. I've also seen family members go broke and commit suicide after being unable to afford medical care that would otherwise would have been provided to them in more humane countries. Apologies if this colors my view of America's "humanity."
  - yostrovs 6y ago
    It's always about health insurance. It's the one defining characteristic of nations. The narrow mindedness is incredible.
    - claudeganon 6y ago
      I'm not sure what you're talking about, but watching someone who worked very hard their whole entire lives be blamed for their misfortune, humiliated, and denied access to treatment by the American system of benefits (not just healthcare, this included disability and other services) doesn't result in narrow-mindedness. It results in an accurate appraisal of what is happening to poor people in this country every day. You can find plenty of news stories, just post-pandemic, about people treated similarly by unemployment benefits systems that were designed to be punitive instead of helping people in need. If those realities are uncomfortable for you and you want to dismiss them, that's perfectly fine, but these stories are out there in plain sight, across the US, for you to observe.
    - FeepingCreature 6y ago
      Health is kind of important.
    - joelbluminator 6y ago
      Totally, I mean who cares about health right?
    - jason0597 6y ago
      It's not narrow mindedness. The healthcare system in the US can destroy you financially in a couple of years (or even months!), even if you do all the right things and work a job with a good salary, save, etc. All for what? For being unlucky and contracting cancer? For having a chronic disease that needs daily medication? Is that what sick people deserve, to have all their finances wiped away? This here is a very famous comment on Reddit that perfectly encapsulates what's wrong with the healthcare system in America: https://old.reddit.com/r/ABoringDystopia/comments/hj6t3t/nothing_new_under_the_sky/fwl8aom/ https://old.reddit.com/r/ABoringDystopia/comments/hj6t3t/not...
dang 6y ago
We've banned this account for political, ideological, and nationalistic flamewar. That's not what this site is for and we asked you repeatedly to stop. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

bildung 6y ago

You have to look which countries people are actually migrating from. Net migration to the US from the richer EU countries is about 0, i.e. about the same number of US citizens are moving into the EU as are moving from those EU countries into the US.

jariel 6y ago
"You have to look which countries people are actually migrating from." This is a misunderstanding. 'Wealthy' people tend to not migrate anywhere, even America. Amazingly talented and hard working Asians are coming to America in droves, which is a massive source of competitive wellbeing. Google, Microsoft, Adobe etc. filling up the ranks with E. and SE. Asians at maybe 33% of their staff in SV for example.
TMWNN 6y ago
>Net migration to the US from the richer EU countries is about 0, i.e. about the same number of US citizens are moving into the EU as are moving from those EU countries into the US. Not true. 10-17% of Canadian, British, Australian, and Swiss scientists move to the US. (https://np.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/37lgxg/the_global_brain_trade/ https://np.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/37lgxg/the_...) These are percentages of all researchers, whether they emigrate anywhere or not. (By contrast, only 5% of US scientists leave theiir country.) Among the general population, there are 824,000 Britons living in the US, compared to 159,000 Americans living in Britain. Given that the US's population is about five times that of Britain's, that means that on a per-capita basis a Briton is 25 times more likely to move to the US than an American is to move to Britain. Of course fewer Europeans migrate to the US than in the 19th and early 20th centuries, or compared to Latin American countries today, but they still come and the net flows are still considerably in the US's favor. There are 1.2 million German-born people living in the US, for example, versus only 150,000 American-born people living in Germany, although the US has four times Germany's population. Sweden and Norway? 15,000 Americans in each, compared to 54,000 Swedes and 36,000 Norwegians in the US. Sweden has 10 million people—the size of Los Angeles County—so there would have to be 1.62 million Americans living there to match those going the other way on a per-capita basis. There are 49,000 Swiss born in the US, compared to 24,000 American born in Switzerland. The US's population is about 37 times larger, so a Swiss is 75 times more likely to move to the US than the other way around. There are 71,000 people born in Austria living in the US compared to 7,700 Americans in Austria, implying that an Austrian is more than 300 times (!) more likely to move to the US. Same with non-European countries; for example, 945,000 Canadians in the US versus 279,000 Americans in Canada. Since the US's population is nine times that of Canada's, on a per-capita basis a Canadian is 27 times more likely to move to the US than the other way around. Yes, the US has a nicer climate than Canada, but this is consistent with other Anglosphere countries; 75,000 Australians and 26,000 New Zealanders are in the US compared to 54,000 Americans in Australia and 13,000 in New Zealand, respectively, so on a per-capita basis Australians are about 20 times more likely to move to the US and New Zealanders an amazing 140 times. Etc., etc. (All data comes from Migration DRC (http://www.migrationdrc.org/research/typesofmigration/global_migrant_origin_database.html); http://www.migrationdrc.org/research/typesofmigration/global... see table 4. Military forces are excluded. A less-detailed graphical version (http://migrationsmap.net/#/USA/arrivals http://migrationsmap.net/#/USA/arrivals) is also available.)