4 ms·

Americans who are able to get jobs in the tech industry do not have to worry about expensive healthcare, at all. The US is very much a tale of two countries -

Americans who are able to get jobs in the tech industry do not have to worry about expensive healthcare, at all. The US is very much a tale of two countries - but people here making a lot of money have a great quality of life.

pablooliva 6y ago
You are right about the part about making money in the US and being ok. I would argue though that the higher standard of living in Europe across the board has a compounding affect. When you know that your neighbors are taken care of and you don't see as much social rot out in the streets, you tend to feel happier, less stressed, more willing to continue supporting and being a part of your community. At least that is my personal experience as an American living in Germany. In addition, it is not just about making money, you get a lot more time off, holidays and as many sick days as the doctor says that you need, within reason of course.
claudeganon 6y ago
Some people don't want to maintain the kind off dissonance required to turn a blind eye to the widespread failings and cruelty of American society. If I had to choose between going to sleep at night knowing that the people around me wouldn't be made bankrupt or homelessness should they have the misfortune of becoming sick, over circumstances where I was slightly more wealthy, but forced to justify all this, I'd choose the former every time.
- ntsplnkv2 6y ago
  There are millions of Americans working to help others, pushing for more socialist policies. But not everyone agrees, and in our country, you have the right to disagree and vote for who you want. I find the holier than thou attitude based on European insecurity quite entertaining. Europe is great - you don't have to denigrate other places. But don't doubt for a second how Europe got there - through colonial genocide.
  - claudeganon 6y ago
    > I find the holier than thou attitude based on European insecurity quite entertaining. I’m an American and my sentiments are based on watching what this country has done to my working class friends and family. I’m glad those things don’t happen to people in Europe. > But not everyone agrees, and in our country, you have the right to disagree and vote for who you want. Just about every parliamentary democracy in Europe is more representative than the American system and nowhere near as corrupt. > But don't doubt for a second how Europe got there - through colonial genocide. Quite familiar with that history, as well as our own of chattel slavery and the genocide of indigenous people.
saiya-jin 6y ago
As somebody living in a country with a strong middle class, I wouldn't want to permanently settle in anything else. It permeates the whole society, the safety, the environment we bring up our children and their values. If you can leave your kids play outside. And so on. US is a great place in many aspects for top 1%, but progressively crappy as you move down the scale. And even good-earning IT worker is one long-term debilitating illness/accident away from financial catastrophe. Let's not forget completely fucked up US university system. Overall, when I was young and relatively naive, US seemed a great place to be. Now that I have kids and seen the world a bit, I see it as one of the alternatives (to say Australia and New Zealand, compared to Europe), but with way too many issues, high criminality, us-vs-them mentality. Also the very obvious class system based on income/wealth, we don't have it here so pronounced which I consider much healthier. One last point - we europeans generally (maybe except for UK) strongly disagree with all wars US is waging in past 30 years or so. Deaths of millions, misery for hundreds of millions for generations to come, pure evil for very little good. There is no way around this if you work in US - your taxes are directly supporting this, everybody a little. We hear a lot about voting with our money - well not living there is also that kind of vote. Passive resistance if you want.
- ntsplnkv2 6y ago
  It's hard to take anyone seriously if they're basing everything off of opinions of never living somewhere. The US isn't perfect. But the idea that it is this lawless wasteland that is terrible is just flat out wrong.
acqq 6y ago
As far as I understand it's not about "get in" it's more about "get in every time" that is the issue having: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will_employment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will_employment combined with that "one illness/accident away from the catastrophe."
- acqq 6y ago
  To explain, Europeans aren't happy when they learn about either of these "features." They typically can expect more protection in Europe, albeit with the tendency of worsening in the last decades, where the influences... come over the Atlantic.
madeofpalk 6y ago
Maybe you just answered the question why people wouldn't want to move to such a country. From the outside, America does not portray itself to be a particularly stable or desirable place to live.
- haram_masala 6y ago
  I'm sure it does if you read Russia Today and Xinhua.
  - aixi 6y ago
    Even if you read only American news it does not seem like a good place to live in. This is coming from an immigrant who chose the EU over the US by the way.
  - freeflight 6y ago
    If you want to go down that route I would say the opposite [0] plays a much bigger role why some Americans can't accept that their country ain't "The best thing ever since sliced bread, #1!" [1]. In reality different people have different priorities, so no single country ever can be "the best", as that solely depends on the individual priorities. It's also not like RT and Xinhua are making up the stuff they use to agitate against the US, like most propaganda it's usually based on at least a kernel of truth. For example the US incarceration rate is a pretty blatant outlier, particularly among developed countries, a factual reality that clashes very harshly with the self-propagandized idea of "Country of the free". The regular "race riots" in the US, and their scale, are a clear indicator to still unresolved issues on that end. Disregarding these as "It's only Russian/Chinese propaganda!" is exactly the kind of mindset that leaves these issues unresolved and tolerated as "normal". [0] https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/07/14/u-s-repeals-propaganda-ban-spreads-government-made-news-to-americans/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/07/14/u-s-repeals-propaganda-... [1] https://www.ohchr.org/EN/NewsEvents/Pages/DisplayNews.aspx?NewsID=22533&LangID=E https://www.ohchr.org/EN/NewsEvents/Pages/DisplayNews.aspx?N...
  - madeofpalk 6y ago
    How's the US response to COVID-19 going?
joelbluminator 6y ago
Well you gotta worry u won't lose your job though right? Which becomes more and more realistic as you age. So just when you need insurance the most you may lose your insurance - nice system.
- est31 6y ago
  Not just age, an accident, diagnosis with a disease, etc. can happen to young people as well. Then you suddenly discover that your american insurance doesn't pay, or only a small fraction of the price...
  - joelbluminator 6y ago
    Why the heck do u guys keep going with this system? I can't wrap my head around it.
  - ntsplnkv2 6y ago
    Insurance policies are not hard to understand. They have a deductible and an out of pocket maximum. Most employer provided plans have a very affordable out of pocket max. Mine is $4000. After that I don't pay anything. In the event of an accident, I'd be fine. Basing anything on the horror stories will make you think everything is bad. Many americans think Europe is a communist hell hole where people steal your money through taxes overrun by islamists.
- ntsplnkv2 6y ago
  I don't worry about it, nor do most of my peers.
  - joelbluminator 6y ago
    because...? No one ever loses his job in tech?
pradn 6y ago
Even if you're in a comfortable situation, you have to worry about friends and family, and ensuring your children will have similar careers. When raising children, it just feeds into the rat race.
- ntsplnkv2 6y ago
  The people who are well off often have strong families, they are often well connected. They don't have to worry about friends and family at all. Again, it's better to be rich in the USA than in Europe, but it's way worse to be poor.
Apocryphon 6y ago
Healthcare, sure- but what about reasonable housing prices?
- ntsplnkv2 6y ago
  The US has tons of affordable housing throughout the nation. It's not like London is super cheap.

pablooliva 6y ago

You are right about the part about making money in the US and being ok. I would argue though that the higher standard of living in Europe across the board has a compounding affect. When you know that your neighbors are taken care of and you don't see as much social rot out in the streets, you tend to feel happier, less stressed, more willing to continue supporting and being a part of your community. At least that is my personal experience as an American living in Germany. In addition, it is not just about making money, you get a lot more time off, holidays and as many sick days as the doctor says that you need, within reason of course.

claudeganon 6y ago

Some people don't want to maintain the kind off dissonance required to turn a blind eye to the widespread failings and cruelty of American society. If I had to choose between going to sleep at night knowing that the people around me wouldn't be made bankrupt or homelessness should they have the misfortune of becoming sick, over circumstances where I was slightly more wealthy, but forced to justify all this, I'd choose the former every time.

ntsplnkv2 6y ago
There are millions of Americans working to help others, pushing for more socialist policies. But not everyone agrees, and in our country, you have the right to disagree and vote for who you want. I find the holier than thou attitude based on European insecurity quite entertaining. Europe is great - you don't have to denigrate other places. But don't doubt for a second how Europe got there - through colonial genocide.
- claudeganon 6y ago
  > I find the holier than thou attitude based on European insecurity quite entertaining. I’m an American and my sentiments are based on watching what this country has done to my working class friends and family. I’m glad those things don’t happen to people in Europe. > But not everyone agrees, and in our country, you have the right to disagree and vote for who you want. Just about every parliamentary democracy in Europe is more representative than the American system and nowhere near as corrupt. > But don't doubt for a second how Europe got there - through colonial genocide. Quite familiar with that history, as well as our own of chattel slavery and the genocide of indigenous people.

saiya-jin 6y ago

As somebody living in a country with a strong middle class, I wouldn't want to permanently settle in anything else. It permeates the whole society, the safety, the environment we bring up our children and their values. If you can leave your kids play outside. And so on. US is a great place in many aspects for top 1%, but progressively crappy as you move down the scale. And even good-earning IT worker is one long-term debilitating illness/accident away from financial catastrophe. Let's not forget completely fucked up US university system. Overall, when I was young and relatively naive, US seemed a great place to be. Now that I have kids and seen the world a bit, I see it as one of the alternatives (to say Australia and New Zealand, compared to Europe), but with way too many issues, high criminality, us-vs-them mentality. Also the very obvious class system based on income/wealth, we don't have it here so pronounced which I consider much healthier. One last point - we europeans generally (maybe except for UK) strongly disagree with all wars US is waging in past 30 years or so. Deaths of millions, misery for hundreds of millions for generations to come, pure evil for very little good. There is no way around this if you work in US - your taxes are directly supporting this, everybody a little. We hear a lot about voting with our money - well not living there is also that kind of vote. Passive resistance if you want.

ntsplnkv2 6y ago
It's hard to take anyone seriously if they're basing everything off of opinions of never living somewhere. The US isn't perfect. But the idea that it is this lawless wasteland that is terrible is just flat out wrong.

acqq 6y ago

As far as I understand it's not about "get in" it's more about "get in every time" that is the issue having: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will_employment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will_employment combined with that "one illness/accident away from the catastrophe."

acqq 6y ago
To explain, Europeans aren't happy when they learn about either of these "features." They typically can expect more protection in Europe, albeit with the tendency of worsening in the last decades, where the influences... come over the Atlantic.

madeofpalk 6y ago

Maybe you just answered the question why people wouldn't want to move to such a country. From the outside, America does not portray itself to be a particularly stable or desirable place to live.

haram_masala 6y ago
I'm sure it does if you read Russia Today and Xinhua.
- aixi 6y ago
  Even if you read only American news it does not seem like a good place to live in. This is coming from an immigrant who chose the EU over the US by the way.
- freeflight 6y ago
  If you want to go down that route I would say the opposite [0] plays a much bigger role why some Americans can't accept that their country ain't "The best thing ever since sliced bread, #1!" [1]. In reality different people have different priorities, so no single country ever can be "the best", as that solely depends on the individual priorities. It's also not like RT and Xinhua are making up the stuff they use to agitate against the US, like most propaganda it's usually based on at least a kernel of truth. For example the US incarceration rate is a pretty blatant outlier, particularly among developed countries, a factual reality that clashes very harshly with the self-propagandized idea of "Country of the free". The regular "race riots" in the US, and their scale, are a clear indicator to still unresolved issues on that end. Disregarding these as "It's only Russian/Chinese propaganda!" is exactly the kind of mindset that leaves these issues unresolved and tolerated as "normal". [0] https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/07/14/u-s-repeals-propaganda-ban-spreads-government-made-news-to-americans/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/07/14/u-s-repeals-propaganda-... [1] https://www.ohchr.org/EN/NewsEvents/Pages/DisplayNews.aspx?NewsID=22533&LangID=E https://www.ohchr.org/EN/NewsEvents/Pages/DisplayNews.aspx?N...
- madeofpalk 6y ago
  How's the US response to COVID-19 going?

joelbluminator 6y ago

Well you gotta worry u won't lose your job though right? Which becomes more and more realistic as you age. So just when you need insurance the most you may lose your insurance - nice system.

est31 6y ago
Not just age, an accident, diagnosis with a disease, etc. can happen to young people as well. Then you suddenly discover that your american insurance doesn't pay, or only a small fraction of the price...
- joelbluminator 6y ago
  Why the heck do u guys keep going with this system? I can't wrap my head around it.
- ntsplnkv2 6y ago
  Insurance policies are not hard to understand. They have a deductible and an out of pocket maximum. Most employer provided plans have a very affordable out of pocket max. Mine is $4000. After that I don't pay anything. In the event of an accident, I'd be fine. Basing anything on the horror stories will make you think everything is bad. Many americans think Europe is a communist hell hole where people steal your money through taxes overrun by islamists.
ntsplnkv2 6y ago
I don't worry about it, nor do most of my peers.
- joelbluminator 6y ago
  because...? No one ever loses his job in tech?

pradn 6y ago

Even if you're in a comfortable situation, you have to worry about friends and family, and ensuring your children will have similar careers. When raising children, it just feeds into the rat race.

ntsplnkv2 6y ago
The people who are well off often have strong families, they are often well connected. They don't have to worry about friends and family at all. Again, it's better to be rich in the USA than in Europe, but it's way worse to be poor.

Apocryphon 6y ago

Healthcare, sure- but what about reasonable housing prices?

ntsplnkv2 6y ago
The US has tons of affordable housing throughout the nation. It's not like London is super cheap.