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Energy, Steel, Semi(ARM), Pharma, Luxury, Distribution, Telecom Giants in Europe, there are a lot more Only Americans think the opposite, i wonder why.. And

Energy, Steel, Semi(ARM), Pharma, Luxury, Distribution, Telecom Giants in Europe, there are a lot more Only Americans think the opposite, i wonder why.. And speaking of market, Europe is a big player, https://www.vgchartz.com/ https://www.vgchartz.com/ console sales speak for itself Stop being brainwashed

eru 6y ago
How many of those were put together by governments? (Airbus has pretty heavy government involved, to be fair.)
- brmgb 6y ago
  Most of the big ones in France (Thales, Airbus, Safran, Technicatome, Alstom). Until the 80s, France pretty much had a planned economy.
  - nraynaud 6y ago
    it's the same in the US, it's just that the US government buys the products, while the French state buys the stock.
  - wott 6y ago
    Yes, but each of the numerous political announcements (on the French level as well as on the EU level) of "we're going to build a giant of [this industry], this time for real" which were made since the 90s have always ended up in something ranging between complete vaporwave and utter failure. Basically all French industrial successes were recorded between the end of WW2 and the end of the 70s/ beginning of the 80s, for the last 3 or 4 decades it all has been going down. That was not helped by the motto of the 90s, when the 'glory' was to become "a company without factory"... And whenever the planned giant at least comes to reality, even if it is as dwarf; the politicians who previously made great announcements, distributed millions, created random office, launched parties and cut the ribbon of the project in front of cameras, then don't even feed it with public commands, but give them to the very American or Chinese giants those projects were supposed to counterbalance. I don't think anyone here believes this kind of announcement any more: there has been so many similar ones already, that are already forgotten and replaced with yet another announcement 9 months later, and again, and again.
    - jeanjogr 6y ago
      > That was not helped by the motto of the 90s, when the 'glory' was to become "a company without factory"... Was that so silly? AMD seems to be doing alright.
      - floatboth 6y ago
        Yeah.. Until 2008, AMD was into the opposite thing, and the weight of their fabs was quite damaging to them
- yvdriess 6y ago
  In short, pretty much all of them were either established or sustained by the government. Even to a greater extent than in the US, as a several of the EU giants descent from privatized national companies.
  - eru 6y ago
    The state sponsored champions are more of a French thing. For a variety of reasons, French companies don't 'want' to grow so big otherwise. The Germans on the other hand, you can't keep them from forming giant trusts and cartels if you wanted to.
Baetylraig7 6y ago
I assure you that there are many, if not the vast majority of tech workers in europe who think european politics is a joke. To pretend otherwise is laughable. That you point at ARM is a good sign that you don't know what you are talking about.
macspoofing 6y ago
There are many EU-based multi-nationals, nobody is arguing that. OP is talking about the efficacy of EU-initiatives to create specific industries within the EU - the track record of those isn't so great and are usually PR stunts.
ChuckNorris89 6y ago
You forgot the most famous, aerospace, and specifically the Airbus group.
Aerroon 6y ago
The EU is ahead of the US in crude steel production, but we're about 6 times behind China.[0] ARM is in the UK and not the EU. It's owned by a Japanese company and soon an American one. Does Europe do that well in pharmaceuticals? It looks to me like the US is leading in biomedical research publications. [1] Some European countries are ahead when measured per capita, but only some and that's not an important figure here. The rest I'm unsure about, but I would like to note that as a market China would easily dwarf Europe. As China becomes richer Europe will become less important in comparison. [0] Page 10 at https://www.worldsteel.org/en/dam/jcr:f7982217-cfde-4fdc-8ba0-795ed807f513/World%252520Steel%252520in%252520Figures%2525202020i.pdf https://www.worldsteel.org/en/dam/jcr:f7982217-cfde-4fdc-8ba... (PDF) [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4566288/#!po=13.3540 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4566288/#!po=13...
- ChuckNorris89 6y ago
  >ARM is in the UK Except that ARM has many offices outside the UK developing important IP. Their Mali Bifrost and Valhall GPU architectures are mainly developed in Scandinavia by former Falanx Microsystems of Norway, aquired by ARM in 2006, hence the norse naming.
  - unix_fan 6y ago
    Their graphics aren’t exactly class leading, and the team designing the CPU cores is in Austin..
  - filoleg 6y ago
    >Their Mali Bifrost and Valhall GPU architectures are mainly developed in Scandinavia by former Falanx Microsystems of Norway Sidenote: Norway is not a part of the EU.
- oblio 6y ago
  > The EU is ahead of the US in crude steel production, but we're about 6 times behind China.[0] Steel isn't a relevant metric these days. Almost all developed countries can make as much as they need. China needs and produces more because they have to catch up. > Does Europe do that well in pharmaceuticals? It looks to me like the US is leading in biomedical research publications. I would hope that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoffmann-La_Roche https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoffmann-La_Roche https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novartis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novartis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AstraZeneca https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AstraZeneca https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanofi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanofi etc. aren't just twiddling their thumbs :-)
foepys 6y ago
I've always found it funny that Germany is internationally known for its engineering when Chemistry is equally or even more important. Bayer, Lanxess, BASF, Covestro, Evonik Industries are some of the largest in the world. Their factories in Germany are rivaling small cities in their size.

eru 6y ago

How many of those were put together by governments? (Airbus has pretty heavy government involved, to be fair.)

brmgb 6y ago
Most of the big ones in France (Thales, Airbus, Safran, Technicatome, Alstom). Until the 80s, France pretty much had a planned economy.
- nraynaud 6y ago
  it's the same in the US, it's just that the US government buys the products, while the French state buys the stock.
- wott 6y ago
  Yes, but each of the numerous political announcements (on the French level as well as on the EU level) of "we're going to build a giant of [this industry], this time for real" which were made since the 90s have always ended up in something ranging between complete vaporwave and utter failure. Basically all French industrial successes were recorded between the end of WW2 and the end of the 70s/ beginning of the 80s, for the last 3 or 4 decades it all has been going down. That was not helped by the motto of the 90s, when the 'glory' was to become "a company without factory"... And whenever the planned giant at least comes to reality, even if it is as dwarf; the politicians who previously made great announcements, distributed millions, created random office, launched parties and cut the ribbon of the project in front of cameras, then don't even feed it with public commands, but give them to the very American or Chinese giants those projects were supposed to counterbalance. I don't think anyone here believes this kind of announcement any more: there has been so many similar ones already, that are already forgotten and replaced with yet another announcement 9 months later, and again, and again.
  - jeanjogr 6y ago
    > That was not helped by the motto of the 90s, when the 'glory' was to become "a company without factory"... Was that so silly? AMD seems to be doing alright.
    - floatboth 6y ago
      Yeah.. Until 2008, AMD was into the opposite thing, and the weight of their fabs was quite damaging to them
yvdriess 6y ago
In short, pretty much all of them were either established or sustained by the government. Even to a greater extent than in the US, as a several of the EU giants descent from privatized national companies.
- eru 6y ago
  The state sponsored champions are more of a French thing. For a variety of reasons, French companies don't 'want' to grow so big otherwise. The Germans on the other hand, you can't keep them from forming giant trusts and cartels if you wanted to.

Baetylraig7 6y ago

I assure you that there are many, if not the vast majority of tech workers in europe who think european politics is a joke. To pretend otherwise is laughable. That you point at ARM is a good sign that you don't know what you are talking about.

macspoofing 6y ago

There are many EU-based multi-nationals, nobody is arguing that. OP is talking about the efficacy of EU-initiatives to create specific industries within the EU - the track record of those isn't so great and are usually PR stunts.

ChuckNorris89 6y ago

You forgot the most famous, aerospace, and specifically the Airbus group.

Aerroon 6y ago

The EU is ahead of the US in crude steel production, but we're about 6 times behind China.[0] ARM is in the UK and not the EU. It's owned by a Japanese company and soon an American one. Does Europe do that well in pharmaceuticals? It looks to me like the US is leading in biomedical research publications. [1] Some European countries are ahead when measured per capita, but only some and that's not an important figure here. The rest I'm unsure about, but I would like to note that as a market China would easily dwarf Europe. As China becomes richer Europe will become less important in comparison. [0] Page 10 at https://www.worldsteel.org/en/dam/jcr:f7982217-cfde-4fdc-8ba0-795ed807f513/World%252520Steel%252520in%252520Figures%2525202020i.pdf https://www.worldsteel.org/en/dam/jcr:f7982217-cfde-4fdc-8ba... (PDF) [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4566288/#!po=13.3540 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4566288/#!po=13...

ChuckNorris89 6y ago
>ARM is in the UK Except that ARM has many offices outside the UK developing important IP. Their Mali Bifrost and Valhall GPU architectures are mainly developed in Scandinavia by former Falanx Microsystems of Norway, aquired by ARM in 2006, hence the norse naming.
- unix_fan 6y ago
  Their graphics aren’t exactly class leading, and the team designing the CPU cores is in Austin..
- filoleg 6y ago
  >Their Mali Bifrost and Valhall GPU architectures are mainly developed in Scandinavia by former Falanx Microsystems of Norway Sidenote: Norway is not a part of the EU.
oblio 6y ago
> The EU is ahead of the US in crude steel production, but we're about 6 times behind China.[0] Steel isn't a relevant metric these days. Almost all developed countries can make as much as they need. China needs and produces more because they have to catch up. > Does Europe do that well in pharmaceuticals? It looks to me like the US is leading in biomedical research publications. I would hope that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoffmann-La_Roche https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoffmann-La_Roche https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novartis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novartis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AstraZeneca https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AstraZeneca https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanofi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanofi etc. aren't just twiddling their thumbs :-)

foepys 6y ago

I've always found it funny that Germany is internationally known for its engineering when Chemistry is equally or even more important. Bayer, Lanxess, BASF, Covestro, Evonik Industries are some of the largest in the world. Their factories in Germany are rivaling small cities in their size.