6 ms·

Do vegans eat lab-grown meat?

by markdown 6y ago

Numberwang 6y ago
No, since all the issues with cholesterol, salt and blood pressure would be the same (for now).
wefhi 6y ago
Yes veganism is about not harming animals and not about the diet
pcr0 6y ago
Depends on the motivation for being vegan. I think vegans who used to eat meat but stopped for environmental/ethical reasons would. Whereas people who never ate meat (e.g. religious reasons) would probably avoid it since they have no motivation to eat meat and it seems too similar (uncanny valley) to something they've always avoided.
- sriku 6y ago
  ... or have adverse physiological reactions to it. I recall when once I ate what my friends told me was raw fish (as part of a Chinese New year party). I didn't get an odd taste at all .. but a couple of hours later threw up. I'm vegetarian from birth and my cheeky friends just watched me eat it without warning me!
  - p2t2p 6y ago
    That's just evil. Bad friends
- latch 6y ago
  It's common for vegans and vegetarians - whatever their reason - to become disgusted with meat after a long enough period. I think it makes more sense for these products (impossible, beyond, ..) to: 1 - Not worry too much about existing vegetarians / vegans 2 - Put more attention towards the growing number of people who eat meat less frequently 3 - Get prices below real meat and then, I think, it's game over
- simias 6y ago
  I agree with you, although the "uncanny valley" for fake meat is definitely something I've experienced even though I'm full vegetarian for merely over a year now. I went to a restaurant that had rather convincing fake-chicken and it was a strangely unpleasant experience, even though I used to eat chicken regularly before. But I think all these meat alternatives are a great thing for meat lovers who try to reduce their consumption for ethical reasons.
doublerabbit 6y ago
Lab/grown meat is still a cell from an animal. I'm vegan and sway towards of not wanting to eat anything from an animal. So as curious as I am, it's still a no for me. But I approve for that it would be nice to see less slaughter caused by those who do eat meat.
- idnefju 6y ago
  Being vegan is about animal suffering and consent though
  - 1propionyl 6y ago
    There are different sorts of vegans with different reasons for their dietary choices. And regardless, for some, after avoiding animal products for a long time the thought of eating them can come to be unappealing.
    - Fnoord 6y ago
      There are three global reasons one can decide to be vegan, vegetarian, and reducetarian. 1) Animal well-being. 2) Environmental well-being. 3) Personal health well-being. You may substitute well-being with suffering, and there's also a nuance between death and staying alive but using (e.g. milking). [EDIT: I suppose there's a fourth, a psychological reason how some people find certain products 'impure' to eat. But I'm not sure how I'd define that group.]
  - Fnoord 6y ago
    What being a vegan is about is up to each individual themselves. There is no kind of contract which allows you to call yourself or see yourself as a vegan, and its furthermore very tiring when someone's trying to preach to you what veganism is about <fill in strict ruleset here>.
- Fnoord 6y ago
  Ah, right, its still a cell from an animal, as is a tire using a cell from an animal, so I guess someone who doesn't eat meat derived from stem cells also walks a lot. The amount of suffering the animal who's cell is used has to endure to grow the lab owned meat is in no relation to the amount of suffering a cow who is being milked has to endure. Therefore, I consider lab meat vegan in spirit, just like gelatin (e.g. not one pig less dies if you eat some licorice with gelatin in it). Meanwhile, vegans eat avocados, which have a massive impact on the environment, and there's barely anyone in the vegan community who opposes that cause its aligned to the animal suffering dogma, and its almost like a cult, too.
beyondcompute 6y ago
It’s a good question. I am not sure I see a lot of reason to eat it except to support the movement (“create demand”, “vote with my wallet”) and maybe to occasionally blend-in with non-vegans (“Look, I can do the same thing as you without most of the associated problems”). But the latter does not seem that attractive or important to me, to be honest. Now “nutritional” reasons can be: 1) protein, 2) vitamins/minerals. 1st is quite ridiculous. Many plants and vegan foods have so much protein! Even broccoli or green peas. And I am not even starting about tofu, tempeh, etc. So vitamins/minerals is actually a more relevant concern. Now I am not sure if the lab-grown meat is going to have as much of those as farm-grown one. Or still the multi-vitamin pill is a better (and cheaper and more convenient) option?
ggm 6y ago
Some will. Some may. Some won't. Some will argue you can't be vegan and eat lab meat.
kitbrennan 6y ago
Apparently the meat is made using Foetal Bovine Serum (which requires the slaughter of cows), and chicken cells (which do not require the slaughter of a chicken). [1] So technically a vegan would not be happy eating it. I'm however curious about the ratio of slaughter to end product (e.g. is it one slaughter to 10kg of end product, or one slaughter to 1 tonne of end product), since that may sway some vegans/vegetarians. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/food/2020/dec/07/lab-grown-chicken-tastes-like-chicken-but-the-feeling-when-eating-it-is-more-complicated https://www.theguardian.com/food/2020/dec/07/lab-grown-chick...
- netcan 6y ago
  Slaughters per kg is a disparate ratio with regular meat too.
- refurb 6y ago
  "Those cells are acquired with a simple biopsy" I guess it depends on where you draw the line? The chicken isn't killed, but I assume it's anesthetized, and surgery is performed on it to get the biopsy sample. Is that cruel? Do you refuse to eat any product that came from that biopsy?
  - doublerabbit 6y ago
    Unless an animal puts up it's paw and volunteers to be put under biopsy for food then yes. It's cruel. Why don't we make food out of humans instead?
  - xkcd-sucks 6y ago
    Yeah, and then the chicken is sacrificed after the biopsy because the techs are only certified for non-survival surgery where survival surgery would require an actual vet
hwerwer24234 6y ago
Representing India (dairy+vegan), I'd say no.
- krtkush 6y ago
  India != dairy + vegan. Indians eat meat of all kinds; from chicken to dogs. So you really can't claim to represent all of us. Me, personally, would love to switch over to lab grown meat as soon as it is declared safe and an environment friendly alternative.
patall 6y ago
This product is quiet far from vegan actually since the cells (whos source we may ignore) are grown on FCS (fetal calf serum)
Tade0 6y ago
I'd say no, but I don't think that matters too much, since they're not the target demographic here.
edent 6y ago
I wrote about this https://shkspr.mobi/blog/2020/12/is-synthetarianism-compatible-with-veganism/ https://shkspr.mobi/blog/2020/12/is-synthetarianism-compatib... I don't think lab-grown meat is suitable for vegans. Taking a cell biopsy is no different from taking milk or eggs from a living animal. It's probably suitable for vegetarians though.
peteretep 6y ago
I think this is the wrong way to look at it, and the right way is “would omnivores be willing to pay a price premium and perhaps take a taste hit in order to know no animals were harmed?” For me, yep. What prevents me from eating vegan is the effort required to find, prepare, and get the macro nutrient profile I need. I’ll generally buy the “most organic” chicken I can find as a small token towards attempting less cruelty, and would probably happily pay three to four times the cost of chicken for a lab-brown substitute.
globular-toast 6y ago
It depends. My father has been a vegetarian for most of his adult life (so 40+ years). To him meat is disgusting. It's dead animals. He tried an Impossible Burger but just doesn't like it. Similarly, there are people who have been vegetarian their entire life because that's their culture. India and Italy are home to the largest vegetarian populations. These people don't wish they could eat meat any more than you wish you could eat grass.

Do vegans eat lab-grown meat?

Numberwang 6y ago

No, since all the issues with cholesterol, salt and blood pressure would be the same (for now).

wefhi 6y ago

Yes veganism is about not harming animals and not about the diet

pcr0 6y ago

Depends on the motivation for being vegan. I think vegans who used to eat meat but stopped for environmental/ethical reasons would. Whereas people who never ate meat (e.g. religious reasons) would probably avoid it since they have no motivation to eat meat and it seems too similar (uncanny valley) to something they've always avoided.

sriku 6y ago
... or have adverse physiological reactions to it. I recall when once I ate what my friends told me was raw fish (as part of a Chinese New year party). I didn't get an odd taste at all .. but a couple of hours later threw up. I'm vegetarian from birth and my cheeky friends just watched me eat it without warning me!
- p2t2p 6y ago
  That's just evil. Bad friends
latch 6y ago
It's common for vegans and vegetarians - whatever their reason - to become disgusted with meat after a long enough period. I think it makes more sense for these products (impossible, beyond, ..) to: 1 - Not worry too much about existing vegetarians / vegans 2 - Put more attention towards the growing number of people who eat meat less frequently 3 - Get prices below real meat and then, I think, it's game over
simias 6y ago
I agree with you, although the "uncanny valley" for fake meat is definitely something I've experienced even though I'm full vegetarian for merely over a year now. I went to a restaurant that had rather convincing fake-chicken and it was a strangely unpleasant experience, even though I used to eat chicken regularly before. But I think all these meat alternatives are a great thing for meat lovers who try to reduce their consumption for ethical reasons.

doublerabbit 6y ago

Lab/grown meat is still a cell from an animal. I'm vegan and sway towards of not wanting to eat anything from an animal. So as curious as I am, it's still a no for me. But I approve for that it would be nice to see less slaughter caused by those who do eat meat.

idnefju 6y ago
Being vegan is about animal suffering and consent though
- 1propionyl 6y ago
  There are different sorts of vegans with different reasons for their dietary choices. And regardless, for some, after avoiding animal products for a long time the thought of eating them can come to be unappealing.
  - Fnoord 6y ago
    There are three global reasons one can decide to be vegan, vegetarian, and reducetarian. 1) Animal well-being. 2) Environmental well-being. 3) Personal health well-being. You may substitute well-being with suffering, and there's also a nuance between death and staying alive but using (e.g. milking). [EDIT: I suppose there's a fourth, a psychological reason how some people find certain products 'impure' to eat. But I'm not sure how I'd define that group.]
- Fnoord 6y ago
  What being a vegan is about is up to each individual themselves. There is no kind of contract which allows you to call yourself or see yourself as a vegan, and its furthermore very tiring when someone's trying to preach to you what veganism is about <fill in strict ruleset here>.
Fnoord 6y ago
Ah, right, its still a cell from an animal, as is a tire using a cell from an animal, so I guess someone who doesn't eat meat derived from stem cells also walks a lot. The amount of suffering the animal who's cell is used has to endure to grow the lab owned meat is in no relation to the amount of suffering a cow who is being milked has to endure. Therefore, I consider lab meat vegan in spirit, just like gelatin (e.g. not one pig less dies if you eat some licorice with gelatin in it). Meanwhile, vegans eat avocados, which have a massive impact on the environment, and there's barely anyone in the vegan community who opposes that cause its aligned to the animal suffering dogma, and its almost like a cult, too.

beyondcompute 6y ago

It’s a good question. I am not sure I see a lot of reason to eat it except to support the movement (“create demand”, “vote with my wallet”) and maybe to occasionally blend-in with non-vegans (“Look, I can do the same thing as you without most of the associated problems”). But the latter does not seem that attractive or important to me, to be honest. Now “nutritional” reasons can be: 1) protein, 2) vitamins/minerals. 1st is quite ridiculous. Many plants and vegan foods have so much protein! Even broccoli or green peas. And I am not even starting about tofu, tempeh, etc. So vitamins/minerals is actually a more relevant concern. Now I am not sure if the lab-grown meat is going to have as much of those as farm-grown one. Or still the multi-vitamin pill is a better (and cheaper and more convenient) option?

ggm 6y ago

Some will. Some may. Some won't. Some will argue you can't be vegan and eat lab meat.

kitbrennan 6y ago

Apparently the meat is made using Foetal Bovine Serum (which requires the slaughter of cows), and chicken cells (which do not require the slaughter of a chicken). [1] So technically a vegan would not be happy eating it. I'm however curious about the ratio of slaughter to end product (e.g. is it one slaughter to 10kg of end product, or one slaughter to 1 tonne of end product), since that may sway some vegans/vegetarians. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/food/2020/dec/07/lab-grown-chicken-tastes-like-chicken-but-the-feeling-when-eating-it-is-more-complicated https://www.theguardian.com/food/2020/dec/07/lab-grown-chick...

netcan 6y ago
Slaughters per kg is a disparate ratio with regular meat too.
refurb 6y ago
"Those cells are acquired with a simple biopsy" I guess it depends on where you draw the line? The chicken isn't killed, but I assume it's anesthetized, and surgery is performed on it to get the biopsy sample. Is that cruel? Do you refuse to eat any product that came from that biopsy?
- doublerabbit 6y ago
  Unless an animal puts up it's paw and volunteers to be put under biopsy for food then yes. It's cruel. Why don't we make food out of humans instead?
- xkcd-sucks 6y ago
  Yeah, and then the chicken is sacrificed after the biopsy because the techs are only certified for non-survival surgery where survival surgery would require an actual vet

hwerwer24234 6y ago

Representing India (dairy+vegan), I'd say no.

krtkush 6y ago
India != dairy + vegan. Indians eat meat of all kinds; from chicken to dogs. So you really can't claim to represent all of us. Me, personally, would love to switch over to lab grown meat as soon as it is declared safe and an environment friendly alternative.

patall 6y ago

This product is quiet far from vegan actually since the cells (whos source we may ignore) are grown on FCS (fetal calf serum)

Tade0 6y ago

I'd say no, but I don't think that matters too much, since they're not the target demographic here.

edent 6y ago

I wrote about this https://shkspr.mobi/blog/2020/12/is-synthetarianism-compatible-with-veganism/ https://shkspr.mobi/blog/2020/12/is-synthetarianism-compatib... I don't think lab-grown meat is suitable for vegans. Taking a cell biopsy is no different from taking milk or eggs from a living animal. It's probably suitable for vegetarians though.

peteretep 6y ago

I think this is the wrong way to look at it, and the right way is “would omnivores be willing to pay a price premium and perhaps take a taste hit in order to know no animals were harmed?” For me, yep. What prevents me from eating vegan is the effort required to find, prepare, and get the macro nutrient profile I need. I’ll generally buy the “most organic” chicken I can find as a small token towards attempting less cruelty, and would probably happily pay three to four times the cost of chicken for a lab-brown substitute.

globular-toast 6y ago

It depends. My father has been a vegetarian for most of his adult life (so 40+ years). To him meat is disgusting. It's dead animals. He tried an Impossible Burger but just doesn't like it. Similarly, there are people who have been vegetarian their entire life because that's their culture. India and Italy are home to the largest vegetarian populations. These people don't wish they could eat meat any more than you wish you could eat grass.