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This comment seems highly lauded, but it doesn't ring true to me. You can't really split people up into light and dark, can you? Like most people, I try to do t

This comment seems highly lauded, but it doesn't ring true to me. You can't really split people up into light and dark, can you? Like most people, I try to do the right thing, and usually succeed. In most cases where I got to know someone who had "dark traits", I eventually learned that they were doing the best they could within the framework of their own lives, and that she is those decisions made a lot more sense when you understood more context of their situations. After all, the fundamental attribution error is the human tendency to assign agency over decisions to people instead of situations.

thomasfromcdnjs 6y ago
This is my exact perspective too.
salawat 6y ago
Heidigger said it best. We have agency, but it is constrained by our path through life. So what's going on around us, and the "hole" in the social fabric we're currently occupying has as much an effect as what we apply ourselves to deciding.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
Geminidog 6y ago
It doesn't ring true to you but your truth differs from the science. The idea that everyone has an equal and balanced amount of dark and light traits and is therefore impossible to classify is misguided. There are many people who can fit into the category of dark and light and there are many people who are complex as you describe. At the very far end of the spectrum are people with antisocial disorder or more commonly known as psychopathy. These are people who can plunge a knife into your face and feel nothing. These people fit our definition of "dark." These traits are actually physically measurable and the fact that these people exist proves your statement as only one part of a more complex story. The science actually says that at the far end of the spectrum a psychopath tends to not be successful due to there inability to self control. Ordinarily your behavior is tempered by fear and empathy but a psychopath can only temper his impulses through raw logic overall leading to more problems.
- darkerside 6y ago
  I'm not saying they are equal parts light and dark. I do think it is dangerous and misguided to apply binary thinking to complex individuals. While there are psychopaths and sociopaths in this world, in the overwhelming majority of cases, your boss/coworker/rival of the moment is not one of them.
  - Geminidog 6y ago
    You don't have evidence for this. You are simply viewing others as a reflection of yourself. If there are people at the tail end of the spectrum there must be people in between people who are centered and people who are extreme. Where and how these groups aggregate is hard to measure experimentally but it is clear that humans can lie and if they are not in the center of the spectrum and more evil than normal than likely they won't reveal it.
    - darkerside 6y ago
      I like to think I have sufficient theory of mind that my self isn't the only evidence for my views. I'm able to admit that my thoughts are colored by myself and my experiences, just like yours. Some people are not psychopathic but get labeled as if they are because of a lack of understanding. Others truly do have psychopathic tendencies. Even then, they are people first, and I'd wager they are a product of environment in more cases than not.
fairity 6y ago
I agree with your comment, but think it's largely unrelated to my point. My point isn't to cast judgment on people with dark traits. Rather, it's to provide an answer to the original question of whether people with dark personality traits are more likely to succeed. I think the answer is yes because the less attached you are to morality, the more choices you have at your disposal. And, the more choices you have at your disposal, the more likely you are to achieve your goals. The important caveat being that others don't catch on. Note that this point isn't mutually exclusive with the idea that there's a spectrum of conscientiousness, and where you fall on that spectrum changes with age and experience.
- darkerside 6y ago
  I agree with your broader point. Dark and light come with connotations. What I've found in my life is that if things look black and white, you aren't close enough to see the shades of gray. By playing into the good and evil tropes, I think we run the danger of oversimplifying the situation. People who understand the full breadth of options certainly have an advantage. That, to me, is orthogonal to whether or not people are moral. Just because you know that you can do things doesn't make you evil. In fact, from a philosophical standpoint, I'd argue there's more virtue in knowing the evil and choosing not to do it than there is in ignorance. And from a business standpoint, there are generally non moral reasons for acting in what look like moral ways.

thomasfromcdnjs 6y ago

This is my exact perspective too.

salawat 6y ago

Heidigger said it best. We have agency, but it is constrained by our path through life. So what's going on around us, and the "hole" in the social fabric we're currently occupying has as much an effect as what we apply ourselves to deciding.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

Geminidog 6y ago

It doesn't ring true to you but your truth differs from the science. The idea that everyone has an equal and balanced amount of dark and light traits and is therefore impossible to classify is misguided. There are many people who can fit into the category of dark and light and there are many people who are complex as you describe. At the very far end of the spectrum are people with antisocial disorder or more commonly known as psychopathy. These are people who can plunge a knife into your face and feel nothing. These people fit our definition of "dark." These traits are actually physically measurable and the fact that these people exist proves your statement as only one part of a more complex story. The science actually says that at the far end of the spectrum a psychopath tends to not be successful due to there inability to self control. Ordinarily your behavior is tempered by fear and empathy but a psychopath can only temper his impulses through raw logic overall leading to more problems.

darkerside 6y ago
I'm not saying they are equal parts light and dark. I do think it is dangerous and misguided to apply binary thinking to complex individuals. While there are psychopaths and sociopaths in this world, in the overwhelming majority of cases, your boss/coworker/rival of the moment is not one of them.
- Geminidog 6y ago
  You don't have evidence for this. You are simply viewing others as a reflection of yourself. If there are people at the tail end of the spectrum there must be people in between people who are centered and people who are extreme. Where and how these groups aggregate is hard to measure experimentally but it is clear that humans can lie and if they are not in the center of the spectrum and more evil than normal than likely they won't reveal it.
  - darkerside 6y ago
    I like to think I have sufficient theory of mind that my self isn't the only evidence for my views. I'm able to admit that my thoughts are colored by myself and my experiences, just like yours. Some people are not psychopathic but get labeled as if they are because of a lack of understanding. Others truly do have psychopathic tendencies. Even then, they are people first, and I'd wager they are a product of environment in more cases than not.

fairity 6y ago

I agree with your comment, but think it's largely unrelated to my point. My point isn't to cast judgment on people with dark traits. Rather, it's to provide an answer to the original question of whether people with dark personality traits are more likely to succeed. I think the answer is yes because the less attached you are to morality, the more choices you have at your disposal. And, the more choices you have at your disposal, the more likely you are to achieve your goals. The important caveat being that others don't catch on. Note that this point isn't mutually exclusive with the idea that there's a spectrum of conscientiousness, and where you fall on that spectrum changes with age and experience.

darkerside 6y ago
I agree with your broader point. Dark and light come with connotations. What I've found in my life is that if things look black and white, you aren't close enough to see the shades of gray. By playing into the good and evil tropes, I think we run the danger of oversimplifying the situation. People who understand the full breadth of options certainly have an advantage. That, to me, is orthogonal to whether or not people are moral. Just because you know that you can do things doesn't make you evil. In fact, from a philosophical standpoint, I'd argue there's more virtue in knowing the evil and choosing not to do it than there is in ignorance. And from a business standpoint, there are generally non moral reasons for acting in what look like moral ways.