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I feel like it would be better if we just tagged poverty as being off-topic to Hacker News. The vast vast majority of people in technology do not currently expe

I feel like it would be better if we just tagged poverty as being off-topic to Hacker News. The vast vast majority of people in technology do not currently experience poverty in any real sense. The same tired and completely unproductive discussion plays out every time. You have: * The "I was broke once and I made it" crowd. They made it out so everyone else should be able to. This creates a predictable argument of one side asserting privilege is a thing and the other side taking it as an insult to their self-worth and industriousness. Both are right, both are wrong, nobody learns anything. * The "Policy" or "Solutioning" threads. Usually started with little nuance or specifics, or with an idea that is so large you'll have to go 10 replies deep to have a chance to get down to anyone's personal beliefs or life experiences as to why they believe how they do. * The "I myself am doing badly because I can't afford a 7 figure home in silicon valley" threads. The arguments are one side saying they're out of touch with "real" people and the other empathizing with the lack of security that comes with not owning a home. Housing discussions follow which I would've hoped are as boring to others as they are by now to me. Were we to emphasise having productive or at least different conversations, we might try for what I call the "missing" threads, IE the ones that don't happen but should. Threads from: * People who had to go to a food bank lately. * People on SNAP, Social Security, Disability. * People currently or in the past outside the western world who have experience with poverty. This may not be the demographic that goes to HN, but if you take time to listen to people trapped in poverty for even 10 minutes and BELIEVE them, you might learn something really interesting. Go give $100 to a local or international food bank now. They need it desperately. Instead of discussing policy on here go look at the lines of people who are currently hungry in the first world: https://www.reuters.com/news/picture/long-lines-at-food-banks-across-us-idUSRTX7EHU2 https://www.reuters.com/news/picture/long-lines-at-food-bank... https://thehill.com/policy/finance/527462-long-lines-form-at-food-banks-across-country-ahead-of-thanksgiving https://thehill.com/policy/finance/527462-long-lines-form-at... You, on hacker news, can afford it.

CharlesW 6y ago
> Go give $100 to a local or international food bank now. Thank you for the reminder about this simple action for good. It was trivial to find my local food banks, and took only a couple minutes to give. (I used charitynavigator.org to decide between a couple of local options.)
mdgrech23 6y ago
Would imagine a lot of ppl on here are products on the great recession and into tech which kind of makes us a unique group. We graduated, had zero prospects, felt like we were going to be a failure, tech boomed and so did we.
ulisesrmzroche 6y ago
Good post. Only thing I would add is you forgot to mention the “just learn to code” crew.
cmdshiftf4 6y ago
>I feel like it would be better if we just tagged poverty as being off-topic to Hacker News. I understand where what's underlying this sentiment, but "you don't get to talk about this subject unless you've personally experienced it" is ultimately unproductive at best. If for nothing else, when it comes to poverty in particular it's worth keeping in mind that educated people earning middle or higher incomes make up the most generous and most frequent donors to charity. "Shut up but pay up" doesn't read all that well.
- taurath 6y ago
  That reading was totally not my intention - go ahead and talk about it by all means. But when I see the same completely unuseful threads time after time amongst people who have pocket change that can seriously help lives, it becomes an erudite ivory tower academic argument that doesn’t have much empathy for people who are in poverty. Note I gave none of my own “qualifications” here. If you took my post to mean “shut up but pay up” then I don’t really find there’s much point in conversing further.
  - nicbou 6y ago
    That's how I read your post too. I don't see why we should not talk about the problem because we haven't experienced it ourselves. If anything, what we share might develop our empathy for the people who are affected. Would you rather we just turn a blind eye to it?
  - joshspankit 6y ago
    It feels like the underlying message you’re trying to get to is: When people who have never experienced poverty first-hand jump in to the conversation, there is a real danger that they will spout the same unhelpful misconceptions and argue that they are solutions. This can set the conversation back significantly while real lives are at stake. On that point, I would agree. Such as “Those in poverty just have to work harder”, which IMO is one of the absolute worst and most damaging mindsets.
gremlinsinc 6y ago
I'm a freelancer, I also have imposter syndrome. I've been using Vue for 3 years, and laravel since 2013. My depression and anxiety over current events, turning forty mixed with some burnout has led to a very rough six months. We had to use gofund me for the rent for the past two months. We had to get on SNAP. An old friend wanted help with wordpress (I hate wordpress), but had to take it. I jumped at $30/hour for 5 hours of work, just so we could put gas in the car, and get a few gifts for our toddler's for Christmas. Not everybody on HN is doing great making 6-7 figure incomes. My best year, I maybe did 70k. My hourly is $40, generally as a freelance dev, even though others get $100, I've not once been able to secure that kind of pay. At 41, I'm getting a bit frustrated with the life, I had dreams of building a SaaS but just getting out of bed is so hard lately. Or I just want to spend every waking minute w/ my kids, cause I have this dread that Covid will take me, and I'll miss out on valuable moments with them. My wife's never had a depressed day in her life, until this year, she's on anti-depressants now, her mom died in August from cancer. Usually she'd keep me out of my depression, now I have to find a way to pull her out of hers. I'm sure there's more people in this thread who are in the demographic, than you think are. Lots of people go to HN and Reddit startup threads to get ideas to break out of poverty. (That's why I learned to code in the first place).

CharlesW 6y ago

> Go give $100 to a local or international food bank now. Thank you for the reminder about this simple action for good. It was trivial to find my local food banks, and took only a couple minutes to give. (I used charitynavigator.org to decide between a couple of local options.)

mdgrech23 6y ago

Would imagine a lot of ppl on here are products on the great recession and into tech which kind of makes us a unique group. We graduated, had zero prospects, felt like we were going to be a failure, tech boomed and so did we.

ulisesrmzroche 6y ago

Good post. Only thing I would add is you forgot to mention the “just learn to code” crew.

cmdshiftf4 6y ago

>I feel like it would be better if we just tagged poverty as being off-topic to Hacker News. I understand where what's underlying this sentiment, but "you don't get to talk about this subject unless you've personally experienced it" is ultimately unproductive at best. If for nothing else, when it comes to poverty in particular it's worth keeping in mind that educated people earning middle or higher incomes make up the most generous and most frequent donors to charity. "Shut up but pay up" doesn't read all that well.

taurath 6y ago
That reading was totally not my intention - go ahead and talk about it by all means. But when I see the same completely unuseful threads time after time amongst people who have pocket change that can seriously help lives, it becomes an erudite ivory tower academic argument that doesn’t have much empathy for people who are in poverty. Note I gave none of my own “qualifications” here. If you took my post to mean “shut up but pay up” then I don’t really find there’s much point in conversing further.
- nicbou 6y ago
  That's how I read your post too. I don't see why we should not talk about the problem because we haven't experienced it ourselves. If anything, what we share might develop our empathy for the people who are affected. Would you rather we just turn a blind eye to it?
- joshspankit 6y ago
  It feels like the underlying message you’re trying to get to is: When people who have never experienced poverty first-hand jump in to the conversation, there is a real danger that they will spout the same unhelpful misconceptions and argue that they are solutions. This can set the conversation back significantly while real lives are at stake. On that point, I would agree. Such as “Those in poverty just have to work harder”, which IMO is one of the absolute worst and most damaging mindsets.

gremlinsinc 6y ago

I'm a freelancer, I also have imposter syndrome. I've been using Vue for 3 years, and laravel since 2013. My depression and anxiety over current events, turning forty mixed with some burnout has led to a very rough six months. We had to use gofund me for the rent for the past two months. We had to get on SNAP. An old friend wanted help with wordpress (I hate wordpress), but had to take it. I jumped at $30/hour for 5 hours of work, just so we could put gas in the car, and get a few gifts for our toddler's for Christmas. Not everybody on HN is doing great making 6-7 figure incomes. My best year, I maybe did 70k. My hourly is $40, generally as a freelance dev, even though others get $100, I've not once been able to secure that kind of pay. At 41, I'm getting a bit frustrated with the life, I had dreams of building a SaaS but just getting out of bed is so hard lately. Or I just want to spend every waking minute w/ my kids, cause I have this dread that Covid will take me, and I'll miss out on valuable moments with them. My wife's never had a depressed day in her life, until this year, she's on anti-depressants now, her mom died in August from cancer. Usually she'd keep me out of my depression, now I have to find a way to pull her out of hers. I'm sure there's more people in this thread who are in the demographic, than you think are. Lots of people go to HN and Reddit startup threads to get ideas to break out of poverty. (That's why I learned to code in the first place).