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Really? Systems programming with a garbage collected language? I'm sure the kernel developers will love that.

ryannielsen 15y ago
Why not have a systems language with garbage collection? From http://research.microsoft.com/pubs/52716/tr-2005-135.pdf http://research.microsoft.com/pubs/52716/tr-2005-135.pdf: 3.4 Garbage Collection Garbage collection is an essential component of most safe languages, as it prevents memory deallocation errors that can subvert safety guarantees. In Singularity, the kernel and processes object spaces are garbage collected. I appreciate that Microsoft Research is saying "why not?" rather than "why?". Singularity is a fascinating OS and I hope it, or some derivative or something like it from someone else, eventually reaches the mainstream market.
- chalst 15y ago
  BitC, a project started by Jonathan Shapiro of Coyotos project fame and briefly associated with Microsoft's Midori project, is a systems programming language that supports garbage collection but also allows the programming of critical sections of code in which garbage collection is not permitted to take place. http://www.bitc-lang.org/docs/bitc/bitc-origins.html http://www.bitc-lang.org/docs/bitc/bitc-origins.html
stewbrew 15y ago
In a talk/interview on Go Rob Pike (on infoq maybe?) explained that with "systems programming" they don't mean OS development (at least not now). GC technology will improve so that sooner or later it won't be an issue.
malkia 15y ago
Surely there were kernels written with garbage collecting - smalltalk xerox systems, or lisp machines come to mind.
sedachv 15y ago
Garbage collection needs to go into the kernel. Providing fast, fine-grained control over virtual memory mappings gets you a read barrier on any system with virtual memory, which lets you build real-time GCs. Azul's patches to Linux show how this can be done: http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/4165 http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/4165 They're using the VT-x for the virtualized page tables and still run the GC in userspace, but if you move the GC into the kernel you won't even need virtualized page tables.

Why not have a systems language with garbage collection? From http://research.microsoft.com/pubs/52716/tr-2005-135.pdf http://research.microsoft.com/pubs/52716/tr-2005-135.pdf: 3.4 Garbage Collection Garbage collection is an essential component of most safe languages, as it prevents memory deallocation errors that can subvert safety guarantees. In Singularity, the kernel and processes object spaces are garbage collected. I appreciate that Microsoft Research is saying "why not?" rather than "why?". Singularity is a fascinating OS and I hope it, or some derivative or something like it from someone else, eventually reaches the mainstream market.

chalst 15y ago
BitC, a project started by Jonathan Shapiro of Coyotos project fame and briefly associated with Microsoft's Midori project, is a systems programming language that supports garbage collection but also allows the programming of critical sections of code in which garbage collection is not permitted to take place. http://www.bitc-lang.org/docs/bitc/bitc-origins.html http://www.bitc-lang.org/docs/bitc/bitc-origins.html

stewbrew 15y ago

In a talk/interview on Go Rob Pike (on infoq maybe?) explained that with "systems programming" they don't mean OS development (at least not now). GC technology will improve so that sooner or later it won't be an issue.

malkia 15y ago

Surely there were kernels written with garbage collecting - smalltalk xerox systems, or lisp machines come to mind.

sedachv 15y ago

Garbage collection needs to go into the kernel. Providing fast, fine-grained control over virtual memory mappings gets you a read barrier on any system with virtual memory, which lets you build real-time GCs. Azul's patches to Linux show how this can be done: http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/4165 http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/4165 They're using the VT-x for the virtualized page tables and still run the GC in userspace, but if you move the GC into the kernel you won't even need virtualized page tables.