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The problem with most Basic Income scheme's is they are solely derived from Income based taxation, they redistribute high wage earners income to lower wage earn

by syshum 6y ago

The problem with most Basic Income scheme's is they are solely derived from Income based taxation, they redistribute high wage earners income to lower wage earners there by in effect punishing high wages I can not back such a system as that is tantamount to labor theft and is unethical Now if you want to base a UBI on something else beside Income based taxation, Such has a Georgist Single land value tax then that would be a more ethical system

prh8 6y ago
Considering that the current system is built on theft by the richest in the form of worker mistreatment, doesn't it all balance out? Amazon is a perfect example of this, you want to protect Bezos against the workers in shitty conditions that are surveilled and actively antagonized?
- syshum 6y ago
  I see you have confused wealth and wages. Bezo's famously takes a salary of just over 80K, which is lower than many of the programmers working for Amazon Also the idea that current system is " built on theft by the richest" is just asinine and ridiculous
  - prh8 6y ago
    I'm not confusing the two, I am fully aware of the methods the rich use generate their wealth while not contributing any of it back via taxes or any form typically. Bezos wealth has doubled during the pandemic. As we discuss the pandemic pushing people into poverty, do you genuinely think it's asinine to judge the current system but not him?
SubiculumCode 6y ago
I'd be interested in a UBI that is funded only by fiat, as a new tool for the Fed. Essentially giving the Federal Reserve the ability to set both interest rates, and UBI rates to optimally stimulate growth and employment, and manage inflation.
- syshum 6y ago
  Ahh yes, the moronic modern monetary policy of money printer go brrrrrr Where people seem to believe we can just create new currency from thin air in infinite quantity and it will have no negative effects This will lead the US losing its status as a World Reserve Currency, this will devalue the dollar, and at some point cause the US to have to issue a new US Dollar replacing the old one and wiping out all savings, investments, etc. but Socialist never do have a good grasp on economics
  - SubiculumCode 6y ago
    This is clearly a rude, and incorrect characterization of my post and position. If, Ubi was a tool of the Federal reserve, obviously the Ubi produced would be held in check to the point before which it negatively affected inflation.
apta 6y ago
Islam has solved this problem over 1400 years ago. Zakat is a form of wealth tax that applies to money over a certain minimum amount. For currencies, it's 2.5%. So if you have $1M sitting in your bank account for 1 year, then by the end of the year you owe $25K to charity. Different percentages apply to other wealth/estate (like farm produce or cattle). It's an extremely fair system, that does not punish people from making high wages (there is no income tax in Islam), and pushes people to invest into the economy. It also does not inherently cause inflation like today's fiat money. It's quite sad to see that humanity keeps refusing to learn from the past.
- syshum 6y ago
  Wealth Taxes are just as bad if not worse than Wage/Income Taxes. They have a massive destabilizing effect on the economy, especially if that wealth is tied up into stock of a company Take for example the "great evil" of today Amazon and Jeff Bezos. If Bezo's was forced to liquidate say 2% of his ownership in Amazon to satisfy his wealth tax that would send the stock into a free fall wiping out many many times more than that in value. So not only does that make it hard to actually calculate the tax bill, over time that kill most investments, 401K's pensions, etc Taxes on subjective wealth (i.e totaling all assets up based on "current market value") is a TERRIBLE system, and very unethical far more unethical than income based taxation
  - apta 6y ago
    Islam's Zakat system provably works. Just read history. > If Bezo's was forced to liquidate say 2% of his ownership in Amazon to satisfy his wealth tax Except nothing I explained about Islam's Zakat laws force anyone to liquidate in the manner you're describing. Note I said cash money. Stocks are not cash money, and hence will not be taxed in the same way I explained. Ownership in companies is subject to things like debt, which will reduce the amount of money paid out. Islam's Zakat is different from the wealth tax some leftists are trying to push today as you're describing.

by syshum 6y ago

prh8 6y ago

Considering that the current system is built on theft by the richest in the form of worker mistreatment, doesn't it all balance out? Amazon is a perfect example of this, you want to protect Bezos against the workers in shitty conditions that are surveilled and actively antagonized?

syshum 6y ago
I see you have confused wealth and wages. Bezo's famously takes a salary of just over 80K, which is lower than many of the programmers working for Amazon Also the idea that current system is " built on theft by the richest" is just asinine and ridiculous
- prh8 6y ago
  I'm not confusing the two, I am fully aware of the methods the rich use generate their wealth while not contributing any of it back via taxes or any form typically. Bezos wealth has doubled during the pandemic. As we discuss the pandemic pushing people into poverty, do you genuinely think it's asinine to judge the current system but not him?

SubiculumCode 6y ago

I'd be interested in a UBI that is funded only by fiat, as a new tool for the Fed. Essentially giving the Federal Reserve the ability to set both interest rates, and UBI rates to optimally stimulate growth and employment, and manage inflation.

syshum 6y ago
Ahh yes, the moronic modern monetary policy of money printer go brrrrrr Where people seem to believe we can just create new currency from thin air in infinite quantity and it will have no negative effects This will lead the US losing its status as a World Reserve Currency, this will devalue the dollar, and at some point cause the US to have to issue a new US Dollar replacing the old one and wiping out all savings, investments, etc. but Socialist never do have a good grasp on economics
- SubiculumCode 6y ago
  This is clearly a rude, and incorrect characterization of my post and position. If, Ubi was a tool of the Federal reserve, obviously the Ubi produced would be held in check to the point before which it negatively affected inflation.

apta 6y ago

Islam has solved this problem over 1400 years ago. Zakat is a form of wealth tax that applies to money over a certain minimum amount. For currencies, it's 2.5%. So if you have $1M sitting in your bank account for 1 year, then by the end of the year you owe $25K to charity. Different percentages apply to other wealth/estate (like farm produce or cattle). It's an extremely fair system, that does not punish people from making high wages (there is no income tax in Islam), and pushes people to invest into the economy. It also does not inherently cause inflation like today's fiat money. It's quite sad to see that humanity keeps refusing to learn from the past.

syshum 6y ago
Wealth Taxes are just as bad if not worse than Wage/Income Taxes. They have a massive destabilizing effect on the economy, especially if that wealth is tied up into stock of a company Take for example the "great evil" of today Amazon and Jeff Bezos. If Bezo's was forced to liquidate say 2% of his ownership in Amazon to satisfy his wealth tax that would send the stock into a free fall wiping out many many times more than that in value. So not only does that make it hard to actually calculate the tax bill, over time that kill most investments, 401K's pensions, etc Taxes on subjective wealth (i.e totaling all assets up based on "current market value") is a TERRIBLE system, and very unethical far more unethical than income based taxation
- apta 6y ago
  Islam's Zakat system provably works. Just read history. > If Bezo's was forced to liquidate say 2% of his ownership in Amazon to satisfy his wealth tax Except nothing I explained about Islam's Zakat laws force anyone to liquidate in the manner you're describing. Note I said cash money. Stocks are not cash money, and hence will not be taxed in the same way I explained. Ownership in companies is subject to things like debt, which will reduce the amount of money paid out. Islam's Zakat is different from the wealth tax some leftists are trying to push today as you're describing.