6 ms·

There are two types of people: People who haven't used Oracle yet, and people who will never use it again. And I'll forever hate them for what they did to Java

There are two types of people: People who haven't used Oracle yet, and people who will never use it again. And I'll forever hate them for what they did to Java (and in setting the precedent that APIs can be copyrighted).

pjmlp 6y ago
What have they done, lets see: - Brought MaximeVM of research and creating GraalVM - In the process of adding value types to Java - In the process of adding support for explicit SIMD in Java - In the process of adding co-routines to Java - Added type inference support - Added pattern matching - Added record types - Integrated J/Rockit support for JIT caches - Made Flight Recorder available in OpenJDK - In the process of making AOT compilation work, instead of requiring you to fork money for a JDK with AOT compiler like Sun used to do - Integrated almost pauseless GC with support for TB sized heaps - Long term roadmap to replace C++ with Java on the JDK, as yet another proof of Java capabilities - In the process of having a JNI replacement And plenty more, https://openjdk.java.net/jeps/0 https://openjdk.java.net/jeps/0 I hope they squash Android Java, Google had the opportunity to buy Sun after screwing them up.
- bzzzt 6y ago
  When your company software stack is turned inside-out by Oracle reps to look for unlicensed JVM's on penalty of really big fines (sorry, opportunities to buy more Oracle software) all those nice-to-have features don't seem to matter that much.
  - pjmlp 6y ago
    Java is like C and C++, plenty of implementations to choose from, including the free beer OpenJDK. Anything else is just FUD.
- bayindirh 6y ago
  They've done all of them because they think it'll allow them to earn more money with less effort on the long run, not because of the sheer love of computer science and research. Oracle creates cool tech in the legacy of Sun because it impresses the right people who can influence the decision makers. To recap: "Hey, Oracle's these new toys are capable and fun to use. We can do much more with them. Can you buy these for us, engineers so we can be happy like children again?"
  - pjmlp 6y ago
    Good on them, they stepped in for Sun when no one else bothered to [0], including Google after screwing them up. I guess the "community" would love to keep using Java frozen in version 6. [0] - Only IBM considered it, which from these threads people here wouldn't be happy anyway.
    - bayindirh 6y ago
      Development of programming languages by corporations is not something I object but, all of the stuff told about Oracle here is correct. They're not a nice entity unless you pay money to them and they're greedy. They always want more. Also, their hardware can fail in strange ways and they'd shrug it off. I've met with some nice people who migrated from Sun but they all say that the terms they work are draconian. I like Java too but, developing a nice language doesn't make Oracle good. Don't get distracted [0]. > I guess the "community" would love to keep using Java frozen in version 6. Python doesn't stop. C++ doesn't drop. Even brainfuck doesn't stop. It'd have prevailed. OpenJDK is one fruit of the project. After removing patent encumbered image processing stuff, OpenJDK just took off. Yes, it's still part of Oracle in a sense but, OracleJDK is compiled from OpenJDK, not vice versa. Again, don't get distracted [0]. [0]: https://calebhearth.com/talks/dont-get-distracted https://calebhearth.com/talks/dont-get-distracted
      - pjmlp 6y ago
        Here some news for you, check the names of the companies that put money on the table for Python and C++. IBM, Microsoft, Google, Apple, Oracle, Amazon, Sony, Nintendo So much better.
        bayindirh 6y ago
        However, the governing bodies of these programming languages are independent from the companies themselves, which is different than Java's position. These companies employ people who contribute to these programming languages. So the model is somewhat different. I'm not that oblivious about the real/programming world.
- CydeWeys 6y ago
  > I hope they squash Android Java, Google had the opportunity to buy Sun after screwing them up. Do you really think that would be a reasonable thing to happen, and good for technology and the world in general? It seems disproportionately punitive, and the "right" thing to happen only if all you care about is watching things burn. And you haven't addressed the precedent that's been set that APIs are now copyrightable. Do you like that precedent? Do you ever use anyone else's APIs in your daily development, and do you like how that now opens you to huge potential liability? Is all of this worth it just because Google didn't acquire Sun??

pjmlp 6y ago

What have they done, lets see: - Brought MaximeVM of research and creating GraalVM - In the process of adding value types to Java - In the process of adding support for explicit SIMD in Java - In the process of adding co-routines to Java - Added type inference support - Added pattern matching - Added record types - Integrated J/Rockit support for JIT caches - Made Flight Recorder available in OpenJDK - In the process of making AOT compilation work, instead of requiring you to fork money for a JDK with AOT compiler like Sun used to do - Integrated almost pauseless GC with support for TB sized heaps - Long term roadmap to replace C++ with Java on the JDK, as yet another proof of Java capabilities - In the process of having a JNI replacement And plenty more, https://openjdk.java.net/jeps/0 https://openjdk.java.net/jeps/0 I hope they squash Android Java, Google had the opportunity to buy Sun after screwing them up.

bzzzt 6y ago
When your company software stack is turned inside-out by Oracle reps to look for unlicensed JVM's on penalty of really big fines (sorry, opportunities to buy more Oracle software) all those nice-to-have features don't seem to matter that much.
- pjmlp 6y ago
  Java is like C and C++, plenty of implementations to choose from, including the free beer OpenJDK. Anything else is just FUD.
bayindirh 6y ago
They've done all of them because they think it'll allow them to earn more money with less effort on the long run, not because of the sheer love of computer science and research. Oracle creates cool tech in the legacy of Sun because it impresses the right people who can influence the decision makers. To recap: "Hey, Oracle's these new toys are capable and fun to use. We can do much more with them. Can you buy these for us, engineers so we can be happy like children again?"
- pjmlp 6y ago
  Good on them, they stepped in for Sun when no one else bothered to [0], including Google after screwing them up. I guess the "community" would love to keep using Java frozen in version 6. [0] - Only IBM considered it, which from these threads people here wouldn't be happy anyway.
  - bayindirh 6y ago
    Development of programming languages by corporations is not something I object but, all of the stuff told about Oracle here is correct. They're not a nice entity unless you pay money to them and they're greedy. They always want more. Also, their hardware can fail in strange ways and they'd shrug it off. I've met with some nice people who migrated from Sun but they all say that the terms they work are draconian. I like Java too but, developing a nice language doesn't make Oracle good. Don't get distracted [0]. > I guess the "community" would love to keep using Java frozen in version 6. Python doesn't stop. C++ doesn't drop. Even brainfuck doesn't stop. It'd have prevailed. OpenJDK is one fruit of the project. After removing patent encumbered image processing stuff, OpenJDK just took off. Yes, it's still part of Oracle in a sense but, OracleJDK is compiled from OpenJDK, not vice versa. Again, don't get distracted [0]. [0]: https://calebhearth.com/talks/dont-get-distracted https://calebhearth.com/talks/dont-get-distracted
    - pjmlp 6y ago
      Here some news for you, check the names of the companies that put money on the table for Python and C++. IBM, Microsoft, Google, Apple, Oracle, Amazon, Sony, Nintendo So much better.
      - bayindirh 6y ago
        However, the governing bodies of these programming languages are independent from the companies themselves, which is different than Java's position. These companies employ people who contribute to these programming languages. So the model is somewhat different. I'm not that oblivious about the real/programming world.
CydeWeys 6y ago
> I hope they squash Android Java, Google had the opportunity to buy Sun after screwing them up. Do you really think that would be a reasonable thing to happen, and good for technology and the world in general? It seems disproportionately punitive, and the "right" thing to happen only if all you care about is watching things burn. And you haven't addressed the precedent that's been set that APIs are now copyrightable. Do you like that precedent? Do you ever use anyone else's APIs in your daily development, and do you like how that now opens you to huge potential liability? Is all of this worth it just because Google didn't acquire Sun??