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Objective discussion goes out the window because rather than look at the actual features of a product people instantly start claiming Apple products are fashion

Objective discussion goes out the window because rather than look at the actual features of a product people instantly start claiming Apple products are fashion statements. So we end up with dead end conversations about meaningless things like this one.

wpietri 6y ago
Personally, I'm happy to look at actual features. But there's no denying they are fashion statements. For Jobs, this went back a long way. Look at the way the initial Mac and the NeXT compared to the competitors of the day. I definitely got involved with the NeXT just because it looked so cool. And honestly I stayed doing NeXT development work long after a rational person would quit. And I think that carried forward. Look at the iPod silhouette billboard ads, which were iconic. [1] Those are not about features. Those are about how fucking cool the iPod was. The iPhone was demonstrably a status symbol. [2] And this has obviously worked well for Apple. They sell under 20% of all phones, but make 2/3rds of all phone profits. Actual features are not the only thing in play here. [1] https://www.pophistorydig.com/topics/tag/ipod-billboard-ads/ https://www.pophistorydig.com/topics/tag/ipod-billboard-ads/ [2] e.g.: https://www.deccanchronicle.com/technology/mobiles-and-tabs/090718/iphone-ipad-are-status-symbols-research.html https://www.deccanchronicle.com/technology/mobiles-and-tabs/...
- ogre_codes 6y ago
  > Personally, I'm happy to look at actual features. Yet here you are talking more about "Fashion" rather than actual products. So many fashion experts on HN, you'd think it was Vogue's forums.
  - wpietri 6y ago
    It is possible to be happy to talk about more than one thing. If you don't want to talk about this particular subtopic, there are other threads. Instead, though, you seem eager to shut down discussion on it. You might think about why.
    - ogre_codes 6y ago
      You've already dismissed anyone's thoughts about quality or features out of hand in your first post in this thread: -> "They instead justify purchases in conventional terms like quality." And you have the balls to talk about shutting down conversations?
      - wpietri 6y ago
        That's not "anyone". That's people who make a purchase for status-enhancing reasons. I'm also happy to discuss technical qualities of hardware, and do it often. But I like to do it with people for whom quality is what truly matters.

wpietri 6y ago

Personally, I'm happy to look at actual features. But there's no denying they are fashion statements. For Jobs, this went back a long way. Look at the way the initial Mac and the NeXT compared to the competitors of the day. I definitely got involved with the NeXT just because it looked so cool. And honestly I stayed doing NeXT development work long after a rational person would quit. And I think that carried forward. Look at the iPod silhouette billboard ads, which were iconic. [1] Those are not about features. Those are about how fucking cool the iPod was. The iPhone was demonstrably a status symbol. [2] And this has obviously worked well for Apple. They sell under 20% of all phones, but make 2/3rds of all phone profits. Actual features are not the only thing in play here. [1] https://www.pophistorydig.com/topics/tag/ipod-billboard-ads/ https://www.pophistorydig.com/topics/tag/ipod-billboard-ads/ [2] e.g.: https://www.deccanchronicle.com/technology/mobiles-and-tabs/090718/iphone-ipad-are-status-symbols-research.html https://www.deccanchronicle.com/technology/mobiles-and-tabs/...

ogre_codes 6y ago
> Personally, I'm happy to look at actual features. Yet here you are talking more about "Fashion" rather than actual products. So many fashion experts on HN, you'd think it was Vogue's forums.
- wpietri 6y ago
  It is possible to be happy to talk about more than one thing. If you don't want to talk about this particular subtopic, there are other threads. Instead, though, you seem eager to shut down discussion on it. You might think about why.
  - ogre_codes 6y ago
    You've already dismissed anyone's thoughts about quality or features out of hand in your first post in this thread: -> "They instead justify purchases in conventional terms like quality." And you have the balls to talk about shutting down conversations?
    - wpietri 6y ago
      That's not "anyone". That's people who make a purchase for status-enhancing reasons. I'm also happy to discuss technical qualities of hardware, and do it often. But I like to do it with people for whom quality is what truly matters.