8 ms·

Many people I talk to only think about their cell calls and do not know about mic recording as well. They also do not know that this can occur while the phone i

Many people I talk to only think about their cell calls and do not know about mic recording as well. They also do not know that this can occur while the phone is off.

drivebyacct2 15y ago
That sounds a bit more tin-foiley. That would require modifications to firmware and phone software that would require direct cooperation from a lot more parties. It would also be relatively easy to discover (vs snooping of traffic that is out of your control). (edit) Thanks for all the info. I hadn't heard as much about this stuff.
- Lost_BiomedE 15y ago
  In 2006 is when I first read about it: http://news.cnet.com/2100-1029_3-6140191.html http://news.cnet.com/2100-1029_3-6140191.html I have only heard bits and pieces since then and have not followed up.
- rdtsc 15y ago
  > That would require modifications to firmware and phone software that would require direct cooperation from a lot more parties. Telecom companies don't exactly have a history of protecting our privacy and standing up to its abuse by law enforcement agencies. And then I would guess it is probably one of those things that is possible in theory but probably not happening necessarily, just because there are other ways, and it is just more of a hassle to modify, upload and patch the firmware on a wide variety of cell phones. Maybe if it is a very high profile case ... > It would also be relatively easy to discover (vs snooping of traffic that is out of your control). Well it depends. If it is a GSM phone, it could betray the fact that it is transmitting when it is supposed to be 'off' if you suddenly hear those characteristic clicks when that phone is near a set of computer speakers for example. Otherwise you could, I guess, notice that battery life has suddenly decreased considerably. Besides those things, what other methods could an average consumer use to determine if this is happening?
  - lukeschlather 15y ago
    >notice that battery life has suddenly decreased considerably This here is the key thing. I know that when the phone sitting in front of me is off, it is off because when I turn it back on it has no idea what time it is and I don't have cell reception here. If it's not even running a clock, it (trivially) can't be running GPS, and other stuff is fairly unlikely.
- shii 15y ago
  Actually it isn't. There's been documented evidence if this very thing being carried our in at least 1 large case[1][2][3]. I'm actually sure there's been some exploits in the wild that have even been presented at Blackhat before, but I can't locate the links properly right now; on the iPhone. [1] http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_listening_device http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_listening_device [2] http://news.cnet.com/2100-1029-6140191.html http://news.cnet.com/2100-1029-6140191.html [3] http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2006/12/remotely_eavesd_1.html http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2006/12/remotely_eaves...
  - biotech 15y ago
    The documented evidence is from a case in 1996. According to the article: Some handsets can't be fully powered down without removing the battery; for instance, some Nokia models will wake up when turned off if an alarm is set. I'm not so sure that this is still a common practice for modern phones.
    - bragh 15y ago
      It isn't a modern phone, but I remember my Nokia 2600 (not Classic) doing that.
      - shrikant 15y ago
        My couple months old Nokia C7 does this (but I'm more grateful for the convenience than worried about covert tapping devices..)
    - slavak 15y ago
      As far as I'm aware all modern phones will at least partially wake up to sound an alarm even when turned off/ Does the iPhone/Android phones do this?
      - drivebyacct2 15y ago
        "Wake up"?? If my Android phone is off, it's off. It doesn't turn itself on, period. If it's just idle, screen off, with lots of stuff asleep, sure it will "wake up" in that the screen turns on, and sound an alarm. But that's it.
- dminor 15y ago
  http://news.cnet.com/2100-1029_3-6140191.html http://news.cnet.com/2100-1029_3-6140191.html Be sure to use real tin foil, not the inferior aluminum kind.

Many people I talk to only think about their cell calls and do not know about mic recording as well. They also do not know that this can occur while the phone is off.

drivebyacct2 15y ago

That sounds a bit more tin-foiley. That would require modifications to firmware and phone software that would require direct cooperation from a lot more parties. It would also be relatively easy to discover (vs snooping of traffic that is out of your control). (edit) Thanks for all the info. I hadn't heard as much about this stuff.

Lost_BiomedE 15y ago
In 2006 is when I first read about it: http://news.cnet.com/2100-1029_3-6140191.html http://news.cnet.com/2100-1029_3-6140191.html I have only heard bits and pieces since then and have not followed up.
rdtsc 15y ago
> That would require modifications to firmware and phone software that would require direct cooperation from a lot more parties. Telecom companies don't exactly have a history of protecting our privacy and standing up to its abuse by law enforcement agencies. And then I would guess it is probably one of those things that is possible in theory but probably not happening necessarily, just because there are other ways, and it is just more of a hassle to modify, upload and patch the firmware on a wide variety of cell phones. Maybe if it is a very high profile case ... > It would also be relatively easy to discover (vs snooping of traffic that is out of your control). Well it depends. If it is a GSM phone, it could betray the fact that it is transmitting when it is supposed to be 'off' if you suddenly hear those characteristic clicks when that phone is near a set of computer speakers for example. Otherwise you could, I guess, notice that battery life has suddenly decreased considerably. Besides those things, what other methods could an average consumer use to determine if this is happening?
- lukeschlather 15y ago
  >notice that battery life has suddenly decreased considerably This here is the key thing. I know that when the phone sitting in front of me is off, it is off because when I turn it back on it has no idea what time it is and I don't have cell reception here. If it's not even running a clock, it (trivially) can't be running GPS, and other stuff is fairly unlikely.
shii 15y ago
Actually it isn't. There's been documented evidence if this very thing being carried our in at least 1 large case[1][2][3]. I'm actually sure there's been some exploits in the wild that have even been presented at Blackhat before, but I can't locate the links properly right now; on the iPhone. [1] http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_listening_device http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_listening_device [2] http://news.cnet.com/2100-1029-6140191.html http://news.cnet.com/2100-1029-6140191.html [3] http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2006/12/remotely_eavesd_1.html http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2006/12/remotely_eaves...
- biotech 15y ago
  The documented evidence is from a case in 1996. According to the article: Some handsets can't be fully powered down without removing the battery; for instance, some Nokia models will wake up when turned off if an alarm is set. I'm not so sure that this is still a common practice for modern phones.
  - bragh 15y ago
    It isn't a modern phone, but I remember my Nokia 2600 (not Classic) doing that.
    - shrikant 15y ago
      My couple months old Nokia C7 does this (but I'm more grateful for the convenience than worried about covert tapping devices..)
  - slavak 15y ago
    As far as I'm aware all modern phones will at least partially wake up to sound an alarm even when turned off/ Does the iPhone/Android phones do this?
    - drivebyacct2 15y ago
      "Wake up"?? If my Android phone is off, it's off. It doesn't turn itself on, period. If it's just idle, screen off, with lots of stuff asleep, sure it will "wake up" in that the screen turns on, and sound an alarm. But that's it.
dminor 15y ago
http://news.cnet.com/2100-1029_3-6140191.html http://news.cnet.com/2100-1029_3-6140191.html Be sure to use real tin foil, not the inferior aluminum kind.