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You must understand that America's goal is not to protect Americans' privacy. It is to protect its own monopoly on violations of Americans' privacy.

by danhak 6y ago

eli 6y ago
I think this falls into the trap of assuming the TikTok ban is part of an intelligible plan. There are a lot of people in the Whitehouse who are looking for ways to pick a fight with China for their own reasons plus TikTok's young users were often mocking the President. I don't think there's much more to it than that.
- kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
  It may have been just a cover for banning WeChat which is a more credible threat. Everybody is up in arms over TikTok and the media says nothing about WeChat so the plan seems to have worked.
- aritmo 6y ago
  TikTok is the most successful China-owned app outside China. Blocking TikTok places a dent to the aspirations of Chinese companies to expand outside China. Same with WeChat.
  - anon9001 6y ago
    Let's assume that's true for a minute. Who does that benefit? The wealthy in the US don't care, because they can and do invest in chinese tech companies. The US government doesn't gain anything by banning TikTok. China can get most of the same data by scraping from other sources. I'm sure the US government can also get the data from Chinese companies if they want. US tech competitors don't benefit from the TikTok ban because it shakes confidence in the laissez-faire attitude the US has had toward tech. US citizens don't care because their interests are currently being represented by Facebook. I think I'd rather have China own my data than Facebook. It all seems very confusing, until you recall that the TikTok ban happened because a bunch of kids organized on it to mess with the pre-registration for a Trump rally. https://www.stanforddaily.com/2020/08/03/tiktok-ban-trump-is-tired-of-gen-z-being-mean-to-him/ https://www.stanforddaily.com/2020/08/03/tiktok-ban-trump-is... There is no pro-US or pro-democracy policy making happening. This is really just trying to graft meaning onto the actions of a childish narcissist with a lot of power.
    - strgcmc 6y ago
      I agree there's no grand plan here, but from another perspective, the rise of TikTok/WeChat/DiDi/Alibaba (e.g. was surprised to see that I can use AliPay at CVS in my area in the US), shows that China doesn't need US companies and will go ahead with its own internet, it's own tech industry, etc. Also see initiatives like this: https://www.cnet.com/news/china-has-big-ideas-for-the-internet-too-bad-no-one-else-likes-them/ https://www.cnet.com/news/china-has-big-ideas-for-the-intern... US influence in China will wane because the US can't really compete the way that US companies have done in other markets; hence, what can the US do but try to blunt/dent/hurt the growth of Chinese companies e.g. by interfering with TikTok (since we're not going to out-compete them or win out in the marketplace)? These are flea bites, not fatal blows, but it's all that the US can muster for now from a "policy" perspective. And keep in mind, the US may not have a grand strategy here, but China certainly does. Or, to condense it into a thought experiment, think about what it would take in some alternate future timeline (which may not be so far-fetched), that would make it more likely for Alibaba to one day acquire Amazon, then for Amazon to acquire Alibaba... We may already be headed to that future.
      - blackrock 6y ago
        Alipay is one the most interesting pieces of technology to come from China. People in the West ridicule it, because they already have their own credit card systems. But think about it. With just a picture of a QR code, anyone can transfer money to you, via their smartphone. No more need for a fancy credit card swipe terminal. No more credit card insecurity. No need to use the credit card chip which often doesn’t work. No more worrying that some company got hacked, and your credit card number is floating around out there, just waiting to be harvested, and your identity stolen. Since it was you, that authorized the purchase with your smartphone. And you get immediate confirmation of the transaction. The processing technology of Alipay got offloaded to your smartphone, and the internet, specifically 4G cellular technology. And plus, the credit card companies, Visa and MasterCard, are just leaches anyways. They get to charge an insane 20% APR, which is far higher than mobsters can charge, and the credit card companies are legally allowed to do so. If the mafia was smart, then they should just start a credit card company, instead of breaking some poor schmuck’s arm for repayment. Credit Card companies are the epitome of a debt trap. Once you get stuck, you forever fall into their quicksand, with fees, late fees, over draft fees, etc. And here is the screwed up thing: all of it is legal. It’s absurd that Congress allows these credit card companies to exist. Oh wait, who am I kidding. The bozos in Congress own stocks in these credit card companies, that’s why they allow this highway robbery to exist legally. The fact that credit card companies charge 3%, just means that everything is 3% higher. The cash spenders are subsidizing the credit card swipers. And the cash back rewards programs are a complete gimmick. Since you’re totally paying for the rewards itself just from the increased 3% fee on everything. Anyways, the sooner that something else comes along to eliminate these dinosaur credit card companies, the better off the world will be. But who am I kidding? That’ll never happen.
- sushisource 6y ago
  Indeed. 2020 has never made https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor more relevant. People want to see conspiracies and patterns in everything. There's probably some truth to some of it, but I'd bet a lot of money most of it is just the result of people bumbling around and trying to cover their own asses.
  - danhak 6y ago
    It's a conspiracy that the U.S. government spies on its citizens via technology companies? And that there is a clear national security interest in preventing foreign adversaries from doing the same?? It's as if we learned absolutely nothing from Snowden.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - sushisource 6y ago
      No, I don't think it's pure conspiracy. Hence, "some truth". I do think that > America's goal is not to protect Americans' privacy. It is to protect its own monopoly on violations of Americans' privacy. Is a gross overstatement, though.
franklampard 6y ago
haha, most of hn users really believe this is to protect Americans’ privacy

You must understand that America's goal is not to protect Americans' privacy. It is to protect its own monopoly on violations of Americans' privacy.

by danhak 6y ago

You must understand that America's goal is not to protect Americans' privacy. It is to protect its own monopoly on violations of Americans' privacy.

eli 6y ago

I think this falls into the trap of assuming the TikTok ban is part of an intelligible plan. There are a lot of people in the Whitehouse who are looking for ways to pick a fight with China for their own reasons plus TikTok's young users were often mocking the President. I don't think there's much more to it than that.

kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
It may have been just a cover for banning WeChat which is a more credible threat. Everybody is up in arms over TikTok and the media says nothing about WeChat so the plan seems to have worked.
aritmo 6y ago
TikTok is the most successful China-owned app outside China. Blocking TikTok places a dent to the aspirations of Chinese companies to expand outside China. Same with WeChat.
- anon9001 6y ago
  Let's assume that's true for a minute. Who does that benefit? The wealthy in the US don't care, because they can and do invest in chinese tech companies. The US government doesn't gain anything by banning TikTok. China can get most of the same data by scraping from other sources. I'm sure the US government can also get the data from Chinese companies if they want. US tech competitors don't benefit from the TikTok ban because it shakes confidence in the laissez-faire attitude the US has had toward tech. US citizens don't care because their interests are currently being represented by Facebook. I think I'd rather have China own my data than Facebook. It all seems very confusing, until you recall that the TikTok ban happened because a bunch of kids organized on it to mess with the pre-registration for a Trump rally. https://www.stanforddaily.com/2020/08/03/tiktok-ban-trump-is-tired-of-gen-z-being-mean-to-him/ https://www.stanforddaily.com/2020/08/03/tiktok-ban-trump-is... There is no pro-US or pro-democracy policy making happening. This is really just trying to graft meaning onto the actions of a childish narcissist with a lot of power.
  - strgcmc 6y ago
    I agree there's no grand plan here, but from another perspective, the rise of TikTok/WeChat/DiDi/Alibaba (e.g. was surprised to see that I can use AliPay at CVS in my area in the US), shows that China doesn't need US companies and will go ahead with its own internet, it's own tech industry, etc. Also see initiatives like this: https://www.cnet.com/news/china-has-big-ideas-for-the-internet-too-bad-no-one-else-likes-them/ https://www.cnet.com/news/china-has-big-ideas-for-the-intern... US influence in China will wane because the US can't really compete the way that US companies have done in other markets; hence, what can the US do but try to blunt/dent/hurt the growth of Chinese companies e.g. by interfering with TikTok (since we're not going to out-compete them or win out in the marketplace)? These are flea bites, not fatal blows, but it's all that the US can muster for now from a "policy" perspective. And keep in mind, the US may not have a grand strategy here, but China certainly does. Or, to condense it into a thought experiment, think about what it would take in some alternate future timeline (which may not be so far-fetched), that would make it more likely for Alibaba to one day acquire Amazon, then for Amazon to acquire Alibaba... We may already be headed to that future.
    - blackrock 6y ago
      Alipay is one the most interesting pieces of technology to come from China. People in the West ridicule it, because they already have their own credit card systems. But think about it. With just a picture of a QR code, anyone can transfer money to you, via their smartphone. No more need for a fancy credit card swipe terminal. No more credit card insecurity. No need to use the credit card chip which often doesn’t work. No more worrying that some company got hacked, and your credit card number is floating around out there, just waiting to be harvested, and your identity stolen. Since it was you, that authorized the purchase with your smartphone. And you get immediate confirmation of the transaction. The processing technology of Alipay got offloaded to your smartphone, and the internet, specifically 4G cellular technology. And plus, the credit card companies, Visa and MasterCard, are just leaches anyways. They get to charge an insane 20% APR, which is far higher than mobsters can charge, and the credit card companies are legally allowed to do so. If the mafia was smart, then they should just start a credit card company, instead of breaking some poor schmuck’s arm for repayment. Credit Card companies are the epitome of a debt trap. Once you get stuck, you forever fall into their quicksand, with fees, late fees, over draft fees, etc. And here is the screwed up thing: all of it is legal. It’s absurd that Congress allows these credit card companies to exist. Oh wait, who am I kidding. The bozos in Congress own stocks in these credit card companies, that’s why they allow this highway robbery to exist legally. The fact that credit card companies charge 3%, just means that everything is 3% higher. The cash spenders are subsidizing the credit card swipers. And the cash back rewards programs are a complete gimmick. Since you’re totally paying for the rewards itself just from the increased 3% fee on everything. Anyways, the sooner that something else comes along to eliminate these dinosaur credit card companies, the better off the world will be. But who am I kidding? That’ll never happen.
sushisource 6y ago
Indeed. 2020 has never made https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor more relevant. People want to see conspiracies and patterns in everything. There's probably some truth to some of it, but I'd bet a lot of money most of it is just the result of people bumbling around and trying to cover their own asses.
- danhak 6y ago
  It's a conspiracy that the U.S. government spies on its citizens via technology companies? And that there is a clear national security interest in preventing foreign adversaries from doing the same?? It's as if we learned absolutely nothing from Snowden.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - sushisource 6y ago
    No, I don't think it's pure conspiracy. Hence, "some truth". I do think that > America's goal is not to protect Americans' privacy. It is to protect its own monopoly on violations of Americans' privacy. Is a gross overstatement, though.

franklampard 6y ago

haha, most of hn users really believe this is to protect Americans’ privacy