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Again, this is all ancient news. We've known for years now that the FBI has had eavesdropping ability not just on phones but on the Internet. We've had whistle

Again, this is all ancient news. We've known for years now that the FBI has had eavesdropping ability not just on phones but on the Internet. We've had whistle blowers talk about installing large routers to duplicate and divert Internet traffic on huge top-tier ISP levels. Time and time again, no one cares or at least cares enough to do anything.

yuhong 16y ago
But it is surprising to see they admit it.
- cookiecaper 16y ago
  If you talk to individuals they'll almost always tell you something along these lines. I've heard "the public doesn't want to know what it takes to keep America safe" a couple of times now from agents in different federal law enforcement/intel agencies.
  - brettnak 16y ago
    I can't help but wondering why statistics aren't published about "the things it takes to keep us safe" and how much they actually help at keeping us safe. It seems, to me, that if it was actually working, they would want to try to vet it with the public. It seems to me that this data is not being used to keep anyone safe, but for other purposes.
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
Lost_BiomedE 16y ago
Many people I talk to only think about their cell calls and do not know about mic recording as well. They also do not know that this can occur while the phone is off.
- drivebyacct2 16y ago
  That sounds a bit more tin-foiley. That would require modifications to firmware and phone software that would require direct cooperation from a lot more parties. It would also be relatively easy to discover (vs snooping of traffic that is out of your control). (edit) Thanks for all the info. I hadn't heard as much about this stuff.
  - Lost_BiomedE 16y ago
    In 2006 is when I first read about it: http://news.cnet.com/2100-1029_3-6140191.html http://news.cnet.com/2100-1029_3-6140191.html I have only heard bits and pieces since then and have not followed up.
  - rdtsc 16y ago
    > That would require modifications to firmware and phone software that would require direct cooperation from a lot more parties. Telecom companies don't exactly have a history of protecting our privacy and standing up to its abuse by law enforcement agencies. And then I would guess it is probably one of those things that is possible in theory but probably not happening necessarily, just because there are other ways, and it is just more of a hassle to modify, upload and patch the firmware on a wide variety of cell phones. Maybe if it is a very high profile case ... > It would also be relatively easy to discover (vs snooping of traffic that is out of your control). Well it depends. If it is a GSM phone, it could betray the fact that it is transmitting when it is supposed to be 'off' if you suddenly hear those characteristic clicks when that phone is near a set of computer speakers for example. Otherwise you could, I guess, notice that battery life has suddenly decreased considerably. Besides those things, what other methods could an average consumer use to determine if this is happening?
    - lukeschlather 16y ago
      >notice that battery life has suddenly decreased considerably This here is the key thing. I know that when the phone sitting in front of me is off, it is off because when I turn it back on it has no idea what time it is and I don't have cell reception here. If it's not even running a clock, it (trivially) can't be running GPS, and other stuff is fairly unlikely.

yuhong 16y ago

But it is surprising to see they admit it.

cookiecaper 16y ago
If you talk to individuals they'll almost always tell you something along these lines. I've heard "the public doesn't want to know what it takes to keep America safe" a couple of times now from agents in different federal law enforcement/intel agencies.
- brettnak 16y ago
  I can't help but wondering why statistics aren't published about "the things it takes to keep us safe" and how much they actually help at keeping us safe. It seems, to me, that if it was actually working, they would want to try to vet it with the public. It seems to me that this data is not being used to keep anyone safe, but for other purposes.

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

Lost_BiomedE 16y ago

Many people I talk to only think about their cell calls and do not know about mic recording as well. They also do not know that this can occur while the phone is off.

drivebyacct2 16y ago
That sounds a bit more tin-foiley. That would require modifications to firmware and phone software that would require direct cooperation from a lot more parties. It would also be relatively easy to discover (vs snooping of traffic that is out of your control). (edit) Thanks for all the info. I hadn't heard as much about this stuff.
- Lost_BiomedE 16y ago
  In 2006 is when I first read about it: http://news.cnet.com/2100-1029_3-6140191.html http://news.cnet.com/2100-1029_3-6140191.html I have only heard bits and pieces since then and have not followed up.
- rdtsc 16y ago
  > That would require modifications to firmware and phone software that would require direct cooperation from a lot more parties. Telecom companies don't exactly have a history of protecting our privacy and standing up to its abuse by law enforcement agencies. And then I would guess it is probably one of those things that is possible in theory but probably not happening necessarily, just because there are other ways, and it is just more of a hassle to modify, upload and patch the firmware on a wide variety of cell phones. Maybe if it is a very high profile case ... > It would also be relatively easy to discover (vs snooping of traffic that is out of your control). Well it depends. If it is a GSM phone, it could betray the fact that it is transmitting when it is supposed to be 'off' if you suddenly hear those characteristic clicks when that phone is near a set of computer speakers for example. Otherwise you could, I guess, notice that battery life has suddenly decreased considerably. Besides those things, what other methods could an average consumer use to determine if this is happening?
  - lukeschlather 16y ago
    >notice that battery life has suddenly decreased considerably This here is the key thing. I know that when the phone sitting in front of me is off, it is off because when I turn it back on it has no idea what time it is and I don't have cell reception here. If it's not even running a clock, it (trivially) can't be running GPS, and other stuff is fairly unlikely.