4 ms·

Would you also drive a Lamborghini that had contrived controls to make it as if you were driving a Ford Taurus? If so, why?

by quotha 6y ago

ceejayoz 6y ago
To avoid crashing it as a brand-new owner who's never driven one before? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHs6uGhj41M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHs6uGhj41M Cars already have this sort of thing - anti-lock brakes, traction control, differential braking, etc. All the computer working to make it easier for the driver.
- quotha 6y ago
  Yes, but you can’t be saying it’s no different from driving a Taurus?!
  - ceejayoz 6y ago
    I'm saying I can see the potential utility of such a feature. I think the decision to use MCAS to avoid retraining pilots was a bad one in hindsight, but it's just one of many situations where we use computers to assist pilots/drivers with this sort of task.
    - quotha 6y ago
      Obviously we use computers to aid pilots/drivers, but MCAS is required. Without it, the max is like a very badly designed fighter jet.
      - ceejayoz 6y ago
        MCAS is not required. The plane flies just fine without it. MCAS was added so the minor differences in how it flies could be adjusted away by computer to avoid needing to retrain pilots already certified for the 737-NG. https://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-biz-boeing-737-max-redesign-faa-recertification-20200914-h2n34l3wezckhk4wq5krlpg5je-story.html https://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-biz-boeing-737-ma... > Boeing put MCAS on the plane not to make it stable in maneuvers approaching a stall but to make it handle and feel exactly the same as the earlier model 737NG. > “If MCAS is deactivated, you can still fly the aircraft and it is not unstable,” said Fehrm. “The Max without MCAS is a perfectly flyable aircraft.”
        kayfox 6y ago
        Its not legal for the MAX to be flown without MCAS. It corrects a control force issue that must be corrected for it to obtain an airworthiness certificate. Cite: FARs §25.173, §25.175.
        ceejayoz 6y ago
        > Its not legal for the MAX to be flown without MCAS. That's an entirely different claim, though, than this: > Without it, the max is like a very badly designed fighter jet. Boeing isn't taking the "get rid of MCAS" approach, they're taking the "fix MCAS" one. If they wanted to get rid of MCAS, though, they'd have to apply for a new cert, without the "737-NG pilots can fly it just fine" piggybacking they did - pilots would have to be trained to the new aircraft type.
      - NikolaeVarius 6y ago
        What. This is a completely wrong comment. How is this related to fighter planes at all?
- selimthegrim 6y ago
  So not Harrison Bergeron with cars necessarily
dghlsakjg 6y ago
If you drive any car in Canada, the US, or the EU built after 2014 then you already have something similar in mandated ESC. The car will apply uncommanded brake inputs to assist in steering the car in what the car determines to be the intended direction. Would I drive a 2014 or later model year Lamborghini? Yes, I absolutely would. I do get your point. But the whole reason for MCAS was so that it WOULD be identical. They weren't selling a lambo as a taurus. They were selling a more efficient taurus with more seats and promising that it would drive just like the old one so you didn't have to retrain your drivers.

Would you also drive a Lamborghini that had contrived controls to make it as if you were driving a Ford Taurus? If so, why?

by quotha 6y ago

Would you also drive a Lamborghini that had contrived controls to make it as if you were driving a Ford Taurus? If so, why?

ceejayoz 6y ago

To avoid crashing it as a brand-new owner who's never driven one before? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHs6uGhj41M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHs6uGhj41M Cars already have this sort of thing - anti-lock brakes, traction control, differential braking, etc. All the computer working to make it easier for the driver.

quotha 6y ago
Yes, but you can’t be saying it’s no different from driving a Taurus?!
- ceejayoz 6y ago
  I'm saying I can see the potential utility of such a feature. I think the decision to use MCAS to avoid retraining pilots was a bad one in hindsight, but it's just one of many situations where we use computers to assist pilots/drivers with this sort of task.
  - quotha 6y ago
    Obviously we use computers to aid pilots/drivers, but MCAS is required. Without it, the max is like a very badly designed fighter jet.
    - ceejayoz 6y ago
      MCAS is not required. The plane flies just fine without it. MCAS was added so the minor differences in how it flies could be adjusted away by computer to avoid needing to retrain pilots already certified for the 737-NG. https://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-biz-boeing-737-max-redesign-faa-recertification-20200914-h2n34l3wezckhk4wq5krlpg5je-story.html https://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-biz-boeing-737-ma... > Boeing put MCAS on the plane not to make it stable in maneuvers approaching a stall but to make it handle and feel exactly the same as the earlier model 737NG. > “If MCAS is deactivated, you can still fly the aircraft and it is not unstable,” said Fehrm. “The Max without MCAS is a perfectly flyable aircraft.”
      - kayfox 6y ago
        Its not legal for the MAX to be flown without MCAS. It corrects a control force issue that must be corrected for it to obtain an airworthiness certificate. Cite: FARs §25.173, §25.175.
        ceejayoz 6y ago
        > Its not legal for the MAX to be flown without MCAS. That's an entirely different claim, though, than this: > Without it, the max is like a very badly designed fighter jet. Boeing isn't taking the "get rid of MCAS" approach, they're taking the "fix MCAS" one. If they wanted to get rid of MCAS, though, they'd have to apply for a new cert, without the "737-NG pilots can fly it just fine" piggybacking they did - pilots would have to be trained to the new aircraft type.
    - NikolaeVarius 6y ago
      What. This is a completely wrong comment. How is this related to fighter planes at all?
selimthegrim 6y ago
So not Harrison Bergeron with cars necessarily

dghlsakjg 6y ago

If you drive any car in Canada, the US, or the EU built after 2014 then you already have something similar in mandated ESC. The car will apply uncommanded brake inputs to assist in steering the car in what the car determines to be the intended direction. Would I drive a 2014 or later model year Lamborghini? Yes, I absolutely would. I do get your point. But the whole reason for MCAS was so that it WOULD be identical. They weren't selling a lambo as a taurus. They were selling a more efficient taurus with more seats and promising that it would drive just like the old one so you didn't have to retrain your drivers.