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Only viable Qt competitor in embedded is Rightware Kanzi. Has anyone here experience with them? (ps. Most people lamenting the price of Qt have no need for Qt,

Only viable Qt competitor in embedded is Rightware Kanzi. Has anyone here experience with them? (ps. Most people lamenting the price of Qt have no need for Qt, should not buy Qt. If you have never heard about Kanzi or Telerik, you are not in the market)

rhencke 6y ago
What is Flutter missing, in your opinion, for it to be a viable competitor?
- Nokinside 6y ago
  Never heard. I willing to bet that it's some framework for mobile, web and desktop. I said __embedded__
  - rhencke 6y ago
    The Flutter engine API has no platform specific dependencies, has a stable ABI and is available in its entirety in a single C header file [1]. It's ideal for embedding. [1] https://github.com/flutter/engine/blob/080fbcb1759e5916f0d6cdcdfd945c053320e6b3/shell/platform/embedder/embedder.h https://github.com/flutter/engine/blob/080fbcb1759e5916f0d6c...
    - vlovich123 6y ago
      Isn’t flutter based on skia? Or is that integration abstracted away?
      - rhencke 6y ago
        Yes [1] and yes [2]. [1] https://flutter.dev/docs/resources/faq#what-technology-is-flutter-built-with https://flutter.dev/docs/resources/faq#what-technology-is-fl... [2] https://flutter.dev/docs/resources/architectural-overview#layout-and-rendering https://flutter.dev/docs/resources/architectural-overview#la...
    - Nokinside 6y ago
      I just can't imagine scenario where it's cheaper to use something like Flutter and port, test, debug and maintain it in operating systems and devices myself or find consults to do it to me. I'm an entrepreneur with 6 guys working for me. 4 of them write embedded software, 1 uses Qt. I pay for Qt because cost/value is right. I don't develop any more software than I have to. I get a product, I can buy consulting with reasonable price.
      - PragmaticPulp 6y ago
        > I just can't imagine scenario where it's cheaper to use something like Flutter and port, test, debug and maintain it in operating systems and devices myself or find consults to do it to me. Currently, you're exactly right. Google is using Flutter for some of their embedded products, but it's going to be a long time before it's anywhere near as plug-and-play as Qt for the average developer. The future of Flutter is looking quite promising, though. It's worth keeping an eye on.
      - mindentropy 6y ago
        > I pay for Qt because cost/value is right. Aren't this paid for by the customer which might be priced into the product or for your consulting services?
- PragmaticPulp 6y ago
  > What is Flutter missing, in your opinion, for it to be a viable competitor? Maturity and the breadth of the surrounding ecosystem, for one. Flutter is looking very promising long-term, but it's going to take some time to evolve past a mobile app framework. Qt is most widely known for the UI framework, but it actually has far more functionality under the hood. Qt's core target audience values those features. Most of the people who see Qt as a simple UI framework don't. Like the parent comment said, most of the people who are complaining about the licensing costs are on the wrong side of the Qt value proposition. They should use simpler, freely available tools like Flutter or Electron.
  - vfclists 6y ago
    Do Flutter apps run on Windows or is it just development that can be done on Windows?
    - alexhutcheson 6y ago
      https://flutter.dev/desktop https://flutter.dev/desktop
baybal2 6y ago
> Only viable Qt competitor in embedded is Rightware Kanzi. Has anyone here experience with them? Kanzi is a cosmic horror in comparison to Qt in terms of low level bugs, which you cannot do anything about. Kanzi tries to differentiate as a purpose built built HMI environment where you get UI+hardware IO+readymade apps, but sucks greatly at being it. Hardware support is where you don't even try using anything, but reference hardware.
- Nokinside 6y ago
  Thanks. I know nothing of the product but investment analysts say it's the only competitor in embedded.

rhencke 6y ago

What is Flutter missing, in your opinion, for it to be a viable competitor?

Nokinside 6y ago
Never heard. I willing to bet that it's some framework for mobile, web and desktop. I said __embedded__
- rhencke 6y ago
  The Flutter engine API has no platform specific dependencies, has a stable ABI and is available in its entirety in a single C header file [1]. It's ideal for embedding. [1] https://github.com/flutter/engine/blob/080fbcb1759e5916f0d6cdcdfd945c053320e6b3/shell/platform/embedder/embedder.h https://github.com/flutter/engine/blob/080fbcb1759e5916f0d6c...
  - vlovich123 6y ago
    Isn’t flutter based on skia? Or is that integration abstracted away?
    - rhencke 6y ago
      Yes [1] and yes [2]. [1] https://flutter.dev/docs/resources/faq#what-technology-is-flutter-built-with https://flutter.dev/docs/resources/faq#what-technology-is-fl... [2] https://flutter.dev/docs/resources/architectural-overview#layout-and-rendering https://flutter.dev/docs/resources/architectural-overview#la...
  - Nokinside 6y ago
    I just can't imagine scenario where it's cheaper to use something like Flutter and port, test, debug and maintain it in operating systems and devices myself or find consults to do it to me. I'm an entrepreneur with 6 guys working for me. 4 of them write embedded software, 1 uses Qt. I pay for Qt because cost/value is right. I don't develop any more software than I have to. I get a product, I can buy consulting with reasonable price.
    - PragmaticPulp 6y ago
      > I just can't imagine scenario where it's cheaper to use something like Flutter and port, test, debug and maintain it in operating systems and devices myself or find consults to do it to me. Currently, you're exactly right. Google is using Flutter for some of their embedded products, but it's going to be a long time before it's anywhere near as plug-and-play as Qt for the average developer. The future of Flutter is looking quite promising, though. It's worth keeping an eye on.
    - mindentropy 6y ago
      > I pay for Qt because cost/value is right. Aren't this paid for by the customer which might be priced into the product or for your consulting services?
PragmaticPulp 6y ago
> What is Flutter missing, in your opinion, for it to be a viable competitor? Maturity and the breadth of the surrounding ecosystem, for one. Flutter is looking very promising long-term, but it's going to take some time to evolve past a mobile app framework. Qt is most widely known for the UI framework, but it actually has far more functionality under the hood. Qt's core target audience values those features. Most of the people who see Qt as a simple UI framework don't. Like the parent comment said, most of the people who are complaining about the licensing costs are on the wrong side of the Qt value proposition. They should use simpler, freely available tools like Flutter or Electron.
- vfclists 6y ago
  Do Flutter apps run on Windows or is it just development that can be done on Windows?
  - alexhutcheson 6y ago
    https://flutter.dev/desktop https://flutter.dev/desktop

baybal2 6y ago

> Only viable Qt competitor in embedded is Rightware Kanzi. Has anyone here experience with them? Kanzi is a cosmic horror in comparison to Qt in terms of low level bugs, which you cannot do anything about. Kanzi tries to differentiate as a purpose built built HMI environment where you get UI+hardware IO+readymade apps, but sucks greatly at being it. Hardware support is where you don't even try using anything, but reference hardware.

Nokinside 6y ago
Thanks. I know nothing of the product but investment analysts say it's the only competitor in embedded.