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It's a ridiculous label to apply to Philip Glass. He would likely reject it himself. The word "avant-garde" comes up not once in Philip Glass's Wikipedia artic
by AndrewUnmuted 6y ago
It's a ridiculous label to apply to Philip Glass. He would likely reject it himself.
The word "avant-garde" comes up not once in Philip Glass's Wikipedia article [0]. The only uses of the word "experimental" are in reference to his early interest in experimental theater.
Philip Glass is easily the most popular, mainstream living music composer. His music is extremely "listenable," and inoffensive to the casual listener. Calling him avant-garde is a complete disservice to what he has actually accomplished in his career. It's more avant-garde to call Philip Glass avant-garde than his music is avant-garde.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Glass https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Glass
- garbagetime 6y ago> It's a ridiculous label to apply to Philip Glass. I disagree. >The word "avant-garde" comes up not once in Philip Glass's Wikipedia article The only uses of the word "experimental" are in reference to his early interest in experimental theater. What's that meant to show? I opened the first four references on that Wikipedia article and all contained the phrase 'avant-garde': [1]https://www.biography.com/musician/philip-glass https://www.biography.com/musician/philip-glass >Philip Glass is an Oscar-nominated avant-garde composer whose notable works include 'Einstein on the Beach,' 'The Hours' and 'Notes on a Scandal.' [2]https://nymag.com/news/features/influentials/16903/ https://nymag.com/news/features/influentials/16903/ >Took the avant-garde mainstream, offering hope and inspiration to countless composer-followers. [3]https://www.theguardian.com/education/2001/nov/24/arts.highereducation1 https://www.theguardian.com/education/2001/nov/24/arts.highe... >The project that would propel Glass from downtown New York notoriety to international stardom came in 1976 - an avant-garde music theatre collaboration with theatre visionary Robert Wilson" [4]https://archive.org/details/bub_gb_9ugCQfxwym0C/page/n5/mode/2up?q=avant-garde https://archive.org/details/bub_gb_9ugCQfxwym0C/page/n5/mode... OK, this one doesn't use the phrase in reference to Glass.
- AndrewUnmuted 6y agoThat's nice, but none of those references speak to the idea that Philip Glass is avant-garde. They simply (and inaccurately) apply this label to him, mainly because they're mainstream sources that do not actually cover Western art music.
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- jey 6y agoI'm interested; what's the definition of avant-garde as defined by the Western art music world?
- rolfea 6y agoIt really depends what time period you're referring to. Maybe broadly we could say that it's music that is either notably ahead of it's contemporaries in terms of innovation or that intentionally breaks out of stylistic models of its time to do something new. So in those terms, Beethoven was at one point "avant-garde" in that his some of his compositions were so strikingly progressive compared to those of his contemporaries that they stood out. They were "at the front" of musical innovation in that sense. John Cage started to compose music that intentionally and radically diverted from the trajectory of traditional western art music, so that was considered "avant-garde," although it was so influential, that I'd say much of it has become "canonized" in a way that performing it isn't really innovative of "edgy" in the way it was at it's original reception. Today I think it's hard to pin down because there aren't really any established traditions that composers are breaking away from like they were at the cusp between the 19th and 20th centuries. I've seen and performed pieces for amplified fluorescent light bulbs, 4 screaming men in loin clothes, and for a solo performer articulating gestures in ASL to a pre-recorded musical track. None of it was scandalous, and some of it was quite good.
- johnnujler 6y agoWhat’s up with the gate keeping dude? Philip is an experimental musician, avant-garde has an experimental aspect to it, so people like calling him that. Why fuss over a word? And fwiw, things change, language is emergent, words acquire and lose meaning based on how people use it, not the other way around.
- garbagetime 6y agoPersonally, I'd be happy to be convinced that he's not an avant-garde composer. There might be some aspect to the term I'm not aware of. But "the word doesn't occur in the Wikipedia article" certainly isn't a very convincing point.
- wirrbel 6y agoCongrats you discovered discovered minimal music. Clearly looking at his age he is already an elder. Nevertheless he definitely qualifies as avant- Garde. You can compose listenable pieces and be avant- garde
- AndrewUnmuted 6y agoMinimalism was "avant-garde" when it was explored as a response to Serialism. Its history is comprised of works that would be considered unlistenable to most audiences. Calling any modern regurgitation of Glass's very-listenable minimalism "avant-garde" is misleading and shuts out the contemporary listener to an entire world of avant-garde music - much of it, very listenable.
- majormajor 6y ago> Calling any modern regurgitation of Glass's very-listenable minimalism "avant-garde" is misleading and shuts out the contemporary listener to an entire world of avant-garde music - much of it, very listenable. I think that's reinforced by the anecdote from the original poster, though. There's still a significant fraction of the audience who dismisses his work out of hand. Yes, they're shut out of even more stuff, but they aren't even open to him, yet. I could see my mother being the upset person in the first story...
- alasdair_ 6y ago>Calling any modern regurgitation of Glass's very-listenable minimalism "avant-garde" is misleading and shuts out the contemporary listener to an entire world of avant-garde music - much of it, very listenable. I'm not convinced that someone simply using the word "avant-garde" shuts anyone out of anything. For example, if I type "Taylor Swift is avant-garde" did this suddenly shut out listeners from an entire world of pop music?
- phlakaton 6y agoAvant-garde does not precisely mean “unlistenable.” There’s plenty of music that’s listenable but still way “out there.” Glass’s music is maybe not consistently on the edge, but his avant-garde reputation comes from works like the “opera” Einstein On the Beach, which is a formidable listening and performing experience, even if it’s heavily diatonic and based on familiar major/minor modalities. It is a sui generis approach to musical structure and musical theater.
- natechols 6y agoEinstein On The Beach is definitely on the extreme end. On the other hand, Itaipu (my personal favorite) and many of his symphonies are about as close to mainstream as modern "classical music" usually gets.
- PaulDavisThe1st 6y agoBwahahahah. You think EotB is "on the extreme end". You've never heard "Music in Similar Motion", I assume?
- natechols 6y agoI'll add that to my playlist, but I'd argue that the difference between 12 minutes and 5 hours counts for a lot! (Although I guess maybe opera audiences are primed for sitting in place for that long? I just don't have the attention span for anything longer than Figaro.)
- PaulDavisThe1st 6y agoScratch that then. Try out "Music in 12 Parts", which is about 4 hours long :) Glass' early minimalism makes EotB seem almost conventional by comparison, at least to me.
- phlakaton 6y agoI agree with Glass in that I don't think minimalism is the best term for what Glass does. Call it postmodern, maybe.
- Cd00d 6y ago>is easily the most popular, mainstream living music composer But, this isn't an article about Danny Elfman....
- samatman 6y agoI would have gone with John Williams, but I got a chuckle out of this.