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Many people do not realize that they do not "listen" to music. They simply put it on for background ambiance, to do other things. And before anyone feels furthe

Many people do not realize that they do not "listen" to music. They simply put it on for background ambiance, to do other things. And before anyone feels further offended, please see this [0] post from 30 minutes ago on HN that completely proves my point made in the previous post. > I think to this day its great background music for programming work Philip Glass wrote his music to be heard in the concert hall. Very few people responding to this article have ever heard any of his works performed live. If people were to actually sit there and listen to his music as intended, the reaction to my post would be very different. Sitting still and listening carefully is a dying practice. I would challenge anyone reading this to seriously ponder, "when was the last time I sat in silence and intently listened to a long-form musical work?" [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25345602 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25345602

amanaplanacanal 6y ago
I did recently (in the before times) watch a simulcast of Akhnaten at a local theater, which I quite enjoyed. Does that count?
mekoka 6y ago
It's strange to believe that you know what people undergo during something as subjective as a sensory experiment. No matter your expertise, you can never really know how another person is perceiving their reality. We're all given a set of senses and a brain to explore the world in our own way. It will not be the same from one individual to the next. If some people are looking to be soothed by music, while others are looking to be stimulated, does that give one group an authority on taste over the other?
- AndrewUnmuted 6y ago
  > does that give one group an authority on taste What the hell? I never made any such comment on the subjective experiences of listeners. You can enjoy music and know it's "junk food." I like listening to plenty of bad music. I don't judge anyone for what they enjoy. To call Philip Glass a master of his domain, a rightfully-celebrated contributor to Western art music, or any of this other crap - that's what I take issue with. Enjoy his music all you want - it's all available and in print, and his various corporate music labels make sure of that. Just don't mislead others who may actually take HN users at their word.
  - ubermonkey 6y ago
    DO NOT SPREAD YOUR INCORRECT OPINIONS. ONLY THE OPINIONS OF ANDREWUNMUTED ARE VALID.
  - rolfea 6y ago
    post-Cage I think it's gotten a bit hard to pin down what it means to be a significant contributor to "Western art music." How do you define that? Has Glass been influential (yes), popular (yes), and tried things compositionally that others hadn't (arguable). Is Steve Reich's music "better"? I think so, both as a listener and a performer, but Glass being potentially more popular doesn't really do any harm to anything. It just is what it is. But I've had as many (and honestly, more) arguments with "anti-contemporary music/art" folks about Berio and Feldman, for example. What is late Feldman doing compositionally? Just shifting around simple chords surrounded by loads of silence while stuffy audiences in turtlenecks nod sagely and compose tweets in their mind for later about how "serene and haunting" this performance was? (I love Feldman, for the record)
  - UncleMeat 6y ago
    > What the hell? I never made any such comment on the subjective experiences of listeners. It was impossible to read your post as anything other than "I am a learned connoisseur and the unwashed masses are all fools".
    - waihtis 6y ago
      Half laughing at the comments, but on the other hand, you always have to appreciate such passion towards any subject matter.
ejfkcisodk 6y ago
I saw two performances of Einstein on the Beach during its revival. Glass intended it to be like Indian classical theater where you can get up and walk around whenever you want. I stayed except for a bathroom break, while friends left to smoke. I think Glass was trying to make a state of mind, not just have people hanging onto every note. Even during Mozart’s time, opera was such a social event that people complained you could hardly hear the music. I’m all for careful listening, but we shouldn’t invalidate people who listen to Glass the way he intended.
- rolfea 6y ago
  I really understood early Glass a lot more when I got the chance to visit a Richard Serra sculpture in LA. Literally walking in the piece helped me understand this idea you're talking about - when I listen to that music now it's a helpful framework to think of exploring a sonic space, rather than tracking linear music like I would with other composers.
  - kindall 6y ago
    I saw that too if it's the one that was at the Ohio State University in 1986 or 1987. I was just a kid who had never heard of either of those guys, but I still remember it thirty-some years later.
- User23 6y ago
  Interestingly that used to be the custom for opera in Europe too. Opera wasn't some kind of reverent Church-like experience, it was the TV on in the background at the bar.
ubermonkey 6y ago
You seem fun.
inimino 6y ago
Step back and listen to yourself. You are shitting on other people's preferences all over the comments and it's distasteful. If you want to advocate for carefully listening to western art music, you could hardly do it in a worse way.
samatman 6y ago
I've seen Philip Glass in concert twice. You have some bizarre chip on your shoulder, have given no reason for anyone to credit your critical opinions, and are generally showing bad taste and rude behaviour.
voldacar 6y ago
> Sitting still and listening carefully is a dying practice. I would challenge anyone reading this to seriously ponder, "when was the last time I sat in silence and intently listened to a long-form musical work?" It's interesting how many people get pissed and come out of the woodwork when you mention this. Something deep within them is slighted or invalidated simply by the mere notion that they might be interacting with music sub-optimally ;)

amanaplanacanal 6y ago

I did recently (in the before times) watch a simulcast of Akhnaten at a local theater, which I quite enjoyed. Does that count?

mekoka 6y ago

It's strange to believe that you know what people undergo during something as subjective as a sensory experiment. No matter your expertise, you can never really know how another person is perceiving their reality. We're all given a set of senses and a brain to explore the world in our own way. It will not be the same from one individual to the next. If some people are looking to be soothed by music, while others are looking to be stimulated, does that give one group an authority on taste over the other?

AndrewUnmuted 6y ago
> does that give one group an authority on taste What the hell? I never made any such comment on the subjective experiences of listeners. You can enjoy music and know it's "junk food." I like listening to plenty of bad music. I don't judge anyone for what they enjoy. To call Philip Glass a master of his domain, a rightfully-celebrated contributor to Western art music, or any of this other crap - that's what I take issue with. Enjoy his music all you want - it's all available and in print, and his various corporate music labels make sure of that. Just don't mislead others who may actually take HN users at their word.
- ubermonkey 6y ago
  DO NOT SPREAD YOUR INCORRECT OPINIONS. ONLY THE OPINIONS OF ANDREWUNMUTED ARE VALID.
- rolfea 6y ago
  post-Cage I think it's gotten a bit hard to pin down what it means to be a significant contributor to "Western art music." How do you define that? Has Glass been influential (yes), popular (yes), and tried things compositionally that others hadn't (arguable). Is Steve Reich's music "better"? I think so, both as a listener and a performer, but Glass being potentially more popular doesn't really do any harm to anything. It just is what it is. But I've had as many (and honestly, more) arguments with "anti-contemporary music/art" folks about Berio and Feldman, for example. What is late Feldman doing compositionally? Just shifting around simple chords surrounded by loads of silence while stuffy audiences in turtlenecks nod sagely and compose tweets in their mind for later about how "serene and haunting" this performance was? (I love Feldman, for the record)
- UncleMeat 6y ago
  > What the hell? I never made any such comment on the subjective experiences of listeners. It was impossible to read your post as anything other than "I am a learned connoisseur and the unwashed masses are all fools".
  - waihtis 6y ago
    Half laughing at the comments, but on the other hand, you always have to appreciate such passion towards any subject matter.

ejfkcisodk 6y ago

I saw two performances of Einstein on the Beach during its revival. Glass intended it to be like Indian classical theater where you can get up and walk around whenever you want. I stayed except for a bathroom break, while friends left to smoke. I think Glass was trying to make a state of mind, not just have people hanging onto every note. Even during Mozart’s time, opera was such a social event that people complained you could hardly hear the music. I’m all for careful listening, but we shouldn’t invalidate people who listen to Glass the way he intended.

rolfea 6y ago
I really understood early Glass a lot more when I got the chance to visit a Richard Serra sculpture in LA. Literally walking in the piece helped me understand this idea you're talking about - when I listen to that music now it's a helpful framework to think of exploring a sonic space, rather than tracking linear music like I would with other composers.
- kindall 6y ago
  I saw that too if it's the one that was at the Ohio State University in 1986 or 1987. I was just a kid who had never heard of either of those guys, but I still remember it thirty-some years later.
User23 6y ago
Interestingly that used to be the custom for opera in Europe too. Opera wasn't some kind of reverent Church-like experience, it was the TV on in the background at the bar.

ubermonkey 6y ago

You seem fun.

inimino 6y ago

Step back and listen to yourself. You are shitting on other people's preferences all over the comments and it's distasteful. If you want to advocate for carefully listening to western art music, you could hardly do it in a worse way.

samatman 6y ago

I've seen Philip Glass in concert twice. You have some bizarre chip on your shoulder, have given no reason for anyone to credit your critical opinions, and are generally showing bad taste and rude behaviour.

voldacar 6y ago

> Sitting still and listening carefully is a dying practice. I would challenge anyone reading this to seriously ponder, "when was the last time I sat in silence and intently listened to a long-form musical work?" It's interesting how many people get pissed and come out of the woodwork when you mention this. Something deep within them is slighted or invalidated simply by the mere notion that they might be interacting with music sub-optimally ;)