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It's true in the UK. Anyone who dies with 28 days of testing positive for Covid-19 is counted as a Covid death, don't think there are exceptions for obvious thi

by makomk 6y ago

It's true in the UK. Anyone who dies with 28 days of testing positive for Covid-19 is counted as a Covid death, don't think there are exceptions for obvious things like motor-cycle accidents and definitely not for heart attacks (some of those probably are caused by Covid). Also, the NHS is testing almost everyone admitted to hospital. Used to be anyone who died at any point after testing positive but that messed with the figures too much and made it impossibe to see any actual increase in Covid deaths. This is one of many reasons that it's difficult to compare death figures from different countries.

M2Ys4U 6y ago
There are several different ways these figures are collected and reported. As for the cause of death, FullFact has this to say: When completing a death certificate, the responsible medical professional is asked to determine which conditions may have contributed to death. They are also asked to determine “the disease or injury that initiated the train of events directly leading to death” and this is called the “underlying cause”.[0] So deaths that were caused by COVID-19 will be reported as such, and that's different from the number of people that died with COVID-19. Note also that it's a criminal offence to knowingly report an incorrect cause of death on a death certificate. [0] https://fullfact.org/health/causes-of-death-october-2020/ https://fullfact.org/health/causes-of-death-october-2020/
iso1631 6y ago
In the UK there are 4 figures 1) Died within 28 days of a +ve test 2) Died within 60 days of a +ve test (in England, but not elsewhere) 3) Death certificate mentions covid 4) Excess deaths above that expected Then there's the "date reported" and "date of death". The date reported is the day the notice reaches the death registrar. That can be within an hour or so of actual death, or can take months. Most are done within about 5 days. For November, in the UK, there were an average 418 deaths occurred per day in the 28 day after a +ve test and 396 deaths reported 410 deaths per day on the death certificate In England alone 28 days: 354 (occurred), 335 (reported) 60 days: 380 (occurred), 358 (reported) Excess deaths: +251 (5 year average), +310 (vs minimum), +191 (vs maximum) If the majority of those deaths were people being hit by a bus, you'd expect the 60 day number to be about double the 28 day number
- lazyjones 6y ago
  > If the majority of those deaths were people being hit by a bus, you'd expect the 60 day number to be about double the 28 day number Only if the testing was unrelated to the death or hospitalisation. If people who get hit by a bus are routinely tested in the ambulance or in hospital, the outcome will be more likely as reported.
  - iso1631 6y ago
    Only if a significant number of the population test positive. In November in England, 354 a day died with a positive test within 28 days. 1635 a day died anyway, meaning 1281 died without a positive test. If 1% of the population were positive, that would mean 16 people would a day "die with covid". To get 354 "with covid" deaths would require 20% of the country to test positive. Mass lateral flow testing in Liverpool last month (Liverpool being hit far worse than most of the country) showed 0.6% of the population with covid. Reports were they were pretty bad flows, missing about half the actual cases, so lets say 1% actually had it. That would mean that of 1635 people a day dying, 16 would "die with covid".

by makomk 6y ago

M2Ys4U 6y ago

There are several different ways these figures are collected and reported. As for the cause of death, FullFact has this to say: When completing a death certificate, the responsible medical professional is asked to determine which conditions may have contributed to death. They are also asked to determine “the disease or injury that initiated the train of events directly leading to death” and this is called the “underlying cause”.[0] So deaths that were caused by COVID-19 will be reported as such, and that's different from the number of people that died with COVID-19. Note also that it's a criminal offence to knowingly report an incorrect cause of death on a death certificate. [0] https://fullfact.org/health/causes-of-death-october-2020/ https://fullfact.org/health/causes-of-death-october-2020/

iso1631 6y ago

In the UK there are 4 figures 1) Died within 28 days of a +ve test 2) Died within 60 days of a +ve test (in England, but not elsewhere) 3) Death certificate mentions covid 4) Excess deaths above that expected Then there's the "date reported" and "date of death". The date reported is the day the notice reaches the death registrar. That can be within an hour or so of actual death, or can take months. Most are done within about 5 days. For November, in the UK, there were an average 418 deaths occurred per day in the 28 day after a +ve test and 396 deaths reported 410 deaths per day on the death certificate In England alone 28 days: 354 (occurred), 335 (reported) 60 days: 380 (occurred), 358 (reported) Excess deaths: +251 (5 year average), +310 (vs minimum), +191 (vs maximum) If the majority of those deaths were people being hit by a bus, you'd expect the 60 day number to be about double the 28 day number

lazyjones 6y ago
> If the majority of those deaths were people being hit by a bus, you'd expect the 60 day number to be about double the 28 day number Only if the testing was unrelated to the death or hospitalisation. If people who get hit by a bus are routinely tested in the ambulance or in hospital, the outcome will be more likely as reported.
- iso1631 6y ago
  Only if a significant number of the population test positive. In November in England, 354 a day died with a positive test within 28 days. 1635 a day died anyway, meaning 1281 died without a positive test. If 1% of the population were positive, that would mean 16 people would a day "die with covid". To get 354 "with covid" deaths would require 20% of the country to test positive. Mass lateral flow testing in Liverpool last month (Liverpool being hit far worse than most of the country) showed 0.6% of the population with covid. Reports were they were pretty bad flows, missing about half the actual cases, so lets say 1% actually had it. That would mean that of 1635 people a day dying, 16 would "die with covid".