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Is this really true? I know that, at least here in Denmark, the relevant authority has sent out a note saying, explicitly, that dying of eg. a heart attack, whi

Is this really true? I know that, at least here in Denmark, the relevant authority has sent out a note saying, explicitly, that dying of eg. a heart attack, while infected with COVID-19, does not count as a COVID-19 death. It also explicitly says the same thing about motor-cycle accidents, which I know has been a rumor that has made the rounds. Source: https://sundhedsdatastyrelsen.dk/-/media/sds/filer/rammer-og-retningslinjer/indberetning/specifikke-omraader/doedsattest/vejledning-om-kodning-af-covid_19-i-forb-m-doedsfald.pdf https://sundhedsdatastyrelsen.dk/-/media/sds/filer/rammer-og...

figaroniguzo 6y ago
10 seconds Googling: https://cbs12.com/news/local/man-who-died-in-motorcycle-crash-counted-as-covid-19-death-in-florida-report https://cbs12.com/news/local/man-who-died-in-motorcycle-cras... Many other stories like that
- pwinnski 6y ago
  Maybe you should spend more than 10 seconds Googling? You could, for example, read the story you linked, which states: "Despite health officials knowing the man died in a motorcycle crash, it is unclear whether or not his death was removed from the overall count in the state." So it's a nothing story, with no statement of fact included at all. Just "unclear whether or not" against repeated statements by state officials that "not."
  - figaroniguzo 6y ago
    So it was included and then removed once people noticed?
    - ceejayoz 6y ago
      There will always be small numbers of cases of stupid coroners, clerical mistakes, etc. Finding one is not proof that there are hundreds of thousands. We can rule out the "they're reporting everything as COVID and that's making the numbers high" hypothesis by looking at overall excess deaths - how many more deaths is the nation experiencing than is typical. A misdiagnosis won't affect excess deaths, as it counts all deaths, regardless of cause. The CDC provides a page for this: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm As is readily visible in the chart, we've been substantially over the norm since late March. (Switch the chart to New York City for an even more obvious example of how a spike in excess deaths shows up. Screenshots: https://imgur.com/a/zSkNbxT https://imgur.com/a/zSkNbxT)
makomk 6y ago
It's true in the UK. Anyone who dies with 28 days of testing positive for Covid-19 is counted as a Covid death, don't think there are exceptions for obvious things like motor-cycle accidents and definitely not for heart attacks (some of those probably are caused by Covid). Also, the NHS is testing almost everyone admitted to hospital. Used to be anyone who died at any point after testing positive but that messed with the figures too much and made it impossibe to see any actual increase in Covid deaths. This is one of many reasons that it's difficult to compare death figures from different countries.
- M2Ys4U 6y ago
  There are several different ways these figures are collected and reported. As for the cause of death, FullFact has this to say: When completing a death certificate, the responsible medical professional is asked to determine which conditions may have contributed to death. They are also asked to determine “the disease or injury that initiated the train of events directly leading to death” and this is called the “underlying cause”.[0] So deaths that were caused by COVID-19 will be reported as such, and that's different from the number of people that died with COVID-19. Note also that it's a criminal offence to knowingly report an incorrect cause of death on a death certificate. [0] https://fullfact.org/health/causes-of-death-october-2020/ https://fullfact.org/health/causes-of-death-october-2020/
- iso1631 6y ago
  In the UK there are 4 figures 1) Died within 28 days of a +ve test 2) Died within 60 days of a +ve test (in England, but not elsewhere) 3) Death certificate mentions covid 4) Excess deaths above that expected Then there's the "date reported" and "date of death". The date reported is the day the notice reaches the death registrar. That can be within an hour or so of actual death, or can take months. Most are done within about 5 days. For November, in the UK, there were an average 418 deaths occurred per day in the 28 day after a +ve test and 396 deaths reported 410 deaths per day on the death certificate In England alone 28 days: 354 (occurred), 335 (reported) 60 days: 380 (occurred), 358 (reported) Excess deaths: +251 (5 year average), +310 (vs minimum), +191 (vs maximum) If the majority of those deaths were people being hit by a bus, you'd expect the 60 day number to be about double the 28 day number

figaroniguzo 6y ago

10 seconds Googling: https://cbs12.com/news/local/man-who-died-in-motorcycle-crash-counted-as-covid-19-death-in-florida-report https://cbs12.com/news/local/man-who-died-in-motorcycle-cras... Many other stories like that

pwinnski 6y ago
Maybe you should spend more than 10 seconds Googling? You could, for example, read the story you linked, which states: "Despite health officials knowing the man died in a motorcycle crash, it is unclear whether or not his death was removed from the overall count in the state." So it's a nothing story, with no statement of fact included at all. Just "unclear whether or not" against repeated statements by state officials that "not."
- figaroniguzo 6y ago
  So it was included and then removed once people noticed?
  - ceejayoz 6y ago
    There will always be small numbers of cases of stupid coroners, clerical mistakes, etc. Finding one is not proof that there are hundreds of thousands. We can rule out the "they're reporting everything as COVID and that's making the numbers high" hypothesis by looking at overall excess deaths - how many more deaths is the nation experiencing than is typical. A misdiagnosis won't affect excess deaths, as it counts all deaths, regardless of cause. The CDC provides a page for this: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm As is readily visible in the chart, we've been substantially over the norm since late March. (Switch the chart to New York City for an even more obvious example of how a spike in excess deaths shows up. Screenshots: https://imgur.com/a/zSkNbxT https://imgur.com/a/zSkNbxT)

makomk 6y ago

It's true in the UK. Anyone who dies with 28 days of testing positive for Covid-19 is counted as a Covid death, don't think there are exceptions for obvious things like motor-cycle accidents and definitely not for heart attacks (some of those probably are caused by Covid). Also, the NHS is testing almost everyone admitted to hospital. Used to be anyone who died at any point after testing positive but that messed with the figures too much and made it impossibe to see any actual increase in Covid deaths. This is one of many reasons that it's difficult to compare death figures from different countries.

M2Ys4U 6y ago
There are several different ways these figures are collected and reported. As for the cause of death, FullFact has this to say: When completing a death certificate, the responsible medical professional is asked to determine which conditions may have contributed to death. They are also asked to determine “the disease or injury that initiated the train of events directly leading to death” and this is called the “underlying cause”.[0] So deaths that were caused by COVID-19 will be reported as such, and that's different from the number of people that died with COVID-19. Note also that it's a criminal offence to knowingly report an incorrect cause of death on a death certificate. [0] https://fullfact.org/health/causes-of-death-october-2020/ https://fullfact.org/health/causes-of-death-october-2020/
iso1631 6y ago
In the UK there are 4 figures 1) Died within 28 days of a +ve test 2) Died within 60 days of a +ve test (in England, but not elsewhere) 3) Death certificate mentions covid 4) Excess deaths above that expected Then there's the "date reported" and "date of death". The date reported is the day the notice reaches the death registrar. That can be within an hour or so of actual death, or can take months. Most are done within about 5 days. For November, in the UK, there were an average 418 deaths occurred per day in the 28 day after a +ve test and 396 deaths reported 410 deaths per day on the death certificate In England alone 28 days: 354 (occurred), 335 (reported) 60 days: 380 (occurred), 358 (reported) Excess deaths: +251 (5 year average), +310 (vs minimum), +191 (vs maximum) If the majority of those deaths were people being hit by a bus, you'd expect the 60 day number to be about double the 28 day number