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Fun Fact: The Swiss once lost tanks in their underground networks. Around 400. https://www.nzz.ch/maurers_schimmelnde_panzer-1.8120259 https://www.nzz.ch/maure

Fun Fact: The Swiss once lost tanks in their underground networks. Around 400. https://www.nzz.ch/maurers_schimmelnde_panzer-1.8120259 https://www.nzz.ch/maurers_schimmelnde_panzer-1.8120259

GordonS 6y ago
Might be a very stupid question, but when you saw "lost", do you mean they were destroyed somehow, or do you literally mean lost as in "couldn't find them"?
- TobTobXX 6y ago
  The tanks were thought to be destroyed (they weren't in use anymore) but while cleaning up a bunker/ tunnel system (idk) the reappeared. So they were lost (couldn't find them) somewhere in the process, instead of destroyed.
skitter 6y ago
According to the article, they didn't loose them, the Minister of Defense just pretended they were suddenly found again.
Shacklz 6y ago
While such stories and the pictures posted here are rather interesting, as a Swiss, I also find it at the same time quite depressing. The Swiss army is a bottomless barrel when it comes to funding; always requiring & demanding money, while preparing for scenarios that were maybe somewhat plausible during the height of the cold war but are nowadays obviously antiquated, plain for anyone to see who doesn't wear the nostalgia-tinged glasses. It provides cool pictures such as the ones posted here and some nice stories, but apart from that - the billions currently going to the army could be used so much better.
- yellowyacht 6y ago
  I'm not a Swiss, so I don't know what your army strategists are preparing for, but generally a military staff plans for dozens of scenarios, not a single one. The overall trend of conflicts has changed, but the frequency has not. This might surprise you. There have been many conflicts since WW2 and even the end of the CW https://reliefweb.int/sites/reliefweb.int/files/resources/Dupuy%2C%20Rustad-%20Trends%20in%20Armed%20Conflict%2C%201946%E2%80%932017%2C%20Conflict%20Trends%205-2018.pdf https://reliefweb.int/sites/reliefweb.int/files/resources/Du... I agree that a bottomless barrel of funding is the wrong approach and they should get it together
  - folli 6y ago
    I have to agree with this assessment. The opinion provided by /u/Shacklz is unfortunately rather widespread in Switzerland and mostly based on some outdated views on the role of the army ("plausible during the height of the cold war"). As Switzerland's strategic reserve, the army has a broad array of tasks, ranging from support in low threat levels (current example: preparing for the storage and distribution of Covid vaccines), supporting the police (example: World Economic Forum) to high threat levels (where tanks and artillery are needed, so this is also being trained for). In the end, the Swiss Army is the Swiss Army knife for Switzerland's national security. Articles like this one that talk about defunct bunkers that were built for a very specific cold war scenario (but again: are now decommissioned) naturally don't really help. Furthermore, the 'bottomless barrel' also completely misses the mark, as Switzerland's military expenditure is very low (around 0.7% of the GDP, NATO benchmark is around 2% for comparison).
    - rscho 6y ago
      The recent vote to buy expensive planes confirms many swiss and myself included in the opinion that efficient defense capabilities clearly is not the national focus. There were two main points in support of planes: - policing the skies - radar tech As for policing, I'm quite sure many swiss would prefer to have 2-3 high-speed unarmed exploratory planes instead. Wanna shoot down the offender? Just a single missile base in the center of the country would do the trick more efficienty and for cheap. As for radar tech, we could most certainly have a better and cheaper solution adapted to our country by just asking for it at ETHZ or EPFL. We are not Russia or the USA. Our country is minuscule. Just remembering the recent scandals with the israeli drones and the useless command software that cost tens of millions while we have degrading education, postal and healthcare systems makes me furious. And I'm far from the only one. Fuck the army.
red0point 6y ago
They weren't lost, this politician just talked some nonsense "die Logistikbasis der Armee hätte ihn darüber informieren können, denn trotz ihren Informatik-Problemen hat sie den Bestand an M-113 und M-109 säuberlich registriert, wie mehrere Stellen im Verteidigungsdepartement betonen.
netsharc 6y ago
I've also learnt that they threw a lot of (expired?) ammunition into the lakes... And that 2 weapons bunkers have exploded, 1 annihilating a village. Well, half of it exploded, and the other half is a ticking time bomb: https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/mitholz--life-in-the-shadow-of-an-alpine-ticking-time-bomb/46129018 https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/mitholz--life-in-the-shadow-of-...
- JayPeaEm 6y ago
  Speak of the devil, as of December 2020, Mitholz is preparing for evacuation right now [1]. [1] - https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/swiss-villagers-face-10-year-evacuation-in--1-billion-bomb-removal-plan/46209450 https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/swiss-villagers-face-10-year-ev...

Fun Fact: The Swiss once lost tanks in their underground networks. Around 400. https://www.nzz.ch/maurers_schimmelnde_panzer-1.8120259 https://www.nzz.ch/maurers_schimmelnde_panzer-1.8120259

GordonS 6y ago

Might be a very stupid question, but when you saw "lost", do you mean they were destroyed somehow, or do you literally mean lost as in "couldn't find them"?

TobTobXX 6y ago
The tanks were thought to be destroyed (they weren't in use anymore) but while cleaning up a bunker/ tunnel system (idk) the reappeared. So they were lost (couldn't find them) somewhere in the process, instead of destroyed.

skitter 6y ago

According to the article, they didn't loose them, the Minister of Defense just pretended they were suddenly found again.

Shacklz 6y ago

While such stories and the pictures posted here are rather interesting, as a Swiss, I also find it at the same time quite depressing. The Swiss army is a bottomless barrel when it comes to funding; always requiring & demanding money, while preparing for scenarios that were maybe somewhat plausible during the height of the cold war but are nowadays obviously antiquated, plain for anyone to see who doesn't wear the nostalgia-tinged glasses. It provides cool pictures such as the ones posted here and some nice stories, but apart from that - the billions currently going to the army could be used so much better.

yellowyacht 6y ago
I'm not a Swiss, so I don't know what your army strategists are preparing for, but generally a military staff plans for dozens of scenarios, not a single one. The overall trend of conflicts has changed, but the frequency has not. This might surprise you. There have been many conflicts since WW2 and even the end of the CW https://reliefweb.int/sites/reliefweb.int/files/resources/Dupuy%2C%20Rustad-%20Trends%20in%20Armed%20Conflict%2C%201946%E2%80%932017%2C%20Conflict%20Trends%205-2018.pdf https://reliefweb.int/sites/reliefweb.int/files/resources/Du... I agree that a bottomless barrel of funding is the wrong approach and they should get it together
- folli 6y ago
  I have to agree with this assessment. The opinion provided by /u/Shacklz is unfortunately rather widespread in Switzerland and mostly based on some outdated views on the role of the army ("plausible during the height of the cold war"). As Switzerland's strategic reserve, the army has a broad array of tasks, ranging from support in low threat levels (current example: preparing for the storage and distribution of Covid vaccines), supporting the police (example: World Economic Forum) to high threat levels (where tanks and artillery are needed, so this is also being trained for). In the end, the Swiss Army is the Swiss Army knife for Switzerland's national security. Articles like this one that talk about defunct bunkers that were built for a very specific cold war scenario (but again: are now decommissioned) naturally don't really help. Furthermore, the 'bottomless barrel' also completely misses the mark, as Switzerland's military expenditure is very low (around 0.7% of the GDP, NATO benchmark is around 2% for comparison).
  - rscho 6y ago
    The recent vote to buy expensive planes confirms many swiss and myself included in the opinion that efficient defense capabilities clearly is not the national focus. There were two main points in support of planes: - policing the skies - radar tech As for policing, I'm quite sure many swiss would prefer to have 2-3 high-speed unarmed exploratory planes instead. Wanna shoot down the offender? Just a single missile base in the center of the country would do the trick more efficienty and for cheap. As for radar tech, we could most certainly have a better and cheaper solution adapted to our country by just asking for it at ETHZ or EPFL. We are not Russia or the USA. Our country is minuscule. Just remembering the recent scandals with the israeli drones and the useless command software that cost tens of millions while we have degrading education, postal and healthcare systems makes me furious. And I'm far from the only one. Fuck the army.

red0point 6y ago

They weren't lost, this politician just talked some nonsense "die Logistikbasis der Armee hätte ihn darüber informieren können, denn trotz ihren Informatik-Problemen hat sie den Bestand an M-113 und M-109 säuberlich registriert, wie mehrere Stellen im Verteidigungsdepartement betonen.

netsharc 6y ago

I've also learnt that they threw a lot of (expired?) ammunition into the lakes... And that 2 weapons bunkers have exploded, 1 annihilating a village. Well, half of it exploded, and the other half is a ticking time bomb: https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/mitholz--life-in-the-shadow-of-an-alpine-ticking-time-bomb/46129018 https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/mitholz--life-in-the-shadow-of-...

JayPeaEm 6y ago
Speak of the devil, as of December 2020, Mitholz is preparing for evacuation right now [1]. [1] - https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/swiss-villagers-face-10-year-evacuation-in--1-billion-bomb-removal-plan/46209450 https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/swiss-villagers-face-10-year-ev...