6 ms·

I don’t live in the US or Switzerland, but my guess is that in Switzerland, there is almost zero chance, statistically, for the police officer to be shot by sus

by donny2018 6y ago

I don’t live in the US or Switzerland, but my guess is that in Switzerland, there is almost zero chance, statistically, for the police officer to be shot by suspect. In my country, I haven’t ever heard about police officer being shot, and coincidentally, I’ve never heard about a suspect being shot by the police unless it’s some kind of counter terrorist operation or something.

CogitoCogito 6y ago
The behavior of American police behavior cannot be explained by the number that have been shot. That number has been trending downwards over the last few decades: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_police_officers_killed_in_the_line_of_duty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_police_office... Regardless, the current actions in question were inexcusable even if police incorrectly believe they are in increasing danger in general. They simply had no reason to be brandishing firearms in this specific case.
- donny2018 6y ago
  It’s not about the number of officers being shot per se. I’m not trying to defend the US police. But I think it’s about the danger of the encounter. In my country, police don’t encounter suspects who are a) under the drug influence, b) very likely to be carrying a weapon and c) very likely to use that weapon. So here they are trained accordingly and police don’t shoot at suspects. In the US, it’s very different. My friend was once robbed by armed criminals in Los Angeles, which would be unthinkable where I live. So I guess the police in the US is trained to respond to such encounters because they have to. And the downward trend might be due various reasons, including aforementioned training that prevents police officer from being shot in the first place. It’s all just my guess, of course.
  - CogitoCogito 6y ago
    You're saying a lot here so it's a bit tough to respond specifically. But my point is the following: the danger police has decreased hence any talk of increased danger is certainly wrong. There may be a _perceived_ increase in danger, but that's not the same thing. It seems pretty clear (to me) to be cultural. Not cultural in some static sense (e.g. American vs Swiss), but cultural as in the culture of policing in the US has been changing over time. Our police has treated American citizens as more dangerous while the opposite is true. The real question is why. Why have Americans idea of the level of crime in society so diverged from reality? Can this be reversed?
    - donny2018 6y ago
      I want to agree with you, but the US is the only 1-st world country in the top of the list of countries by homicide rate per capita: https://www.indexmundi.com/facts/indicators/VC.IHR.PSRC.P5/rankings https://www.indexmundi.com/facts/indicators/VC.IHR.PSRC.P5/r... Which pretty much is in line with what I get about US through my news feed and anecdotally. I don't know why, but there is definitely something wrong with US culture of normalized violence. And the police is just a reflection of that, reaction if you will.
  - r00fus 6y ago
    Perhaps it's all about training and the culture of "killology" that's seeping into our police forces [1]. Or maybe it's the fact that corporations pay police to "protect and serve" them instead of the general public [2]. Or it's the "perceived" danger from the cops' point of view? [1] https://www.insider.com/bulletproof-dave-grossman-police-trainer-teaching-officers-how-to-kill-2020-6 https://www.insider.com/bulletproof-dave-grossman-police-tra... [2] https://readsludge.com/2020/06/19/corporate-backers-of-the-blue-how-corporations-bankroll-u-s-police-foundations/ https://readsludge.com/2020/06/19/corporate-backers-of-the-b...
  - counterpoint1 6y ago
    > "In my country" > "In the US, it's very different" If I had a dollar for every time someone on HN who doesn't live in the US nonetheless weighs in as an expert on American life I could retire. Do you think a data scientist who had ethical concerns about covid data manipulation is a violent murderer? Do you think America in real life is like a movie with gun fights and explosions? There is essentially zero risk of someone shooting a cop in a routine situation. They weren't raiding some druglord gang headquarters or ISIS terrorist operation.
    - donny2018 6y ago
      Again, in my country criminals don’t carry guns and unlikely to be under drug influence = zero police shootings. Vs your country, where criminals do carry guns = lots of police shootings. No need to be American to connect the dots.
- gremlinsinc 6y ago
  Honestly, being a cop is probably no more 'dangerous' than walking into any business establishment and getting blown away by an insane person. I used to deliver pizza's back in the 90s, I never would've thought my job was top 5 for deaths, and cops were > 18th, but those are the statistics.

CogitoCogito 6y ago

The behavior of American police behavior cannot be explained by the number that have been shot. That number has been trending downwards over the last few decades: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_police_officers_killed_in_the_line_of_duty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_police_office... Regardless, the current actions in question were inexcusable even if police incorrectly believe they are in increasing danger in general. They simply had no reason to be brandishing firearms in this specific case.

donny2018 6y ago
It’s not about the number of officers being shot per se. I’m not trying to defend the US police. But I think it’s about the danger of the encounter. In my country, police don’t encounter suspects who are a) under the drug influence, b) very likely to be carrying a weapon and c) very likely to use that weapon. So here they are trained accordingly and police don’t shoot at suspects. In the US, it’s very different. My friend was once robbed by armed criminals in Los Angeles, which would be unthinkable where I live. So I guess the police in the US is trained to respond to such encounters because they have to. And the downward trend might be due various reasons, including aforementioned training that prevents police officer from being shot in the first place. It’s all just my guess, of course.
- CogitoCogito 6y ago
  You're saying a lot here so it's a bit tough to respond specifically. But my point is the following: the danger police has decreased hence any talk of increased danger is certainly wrong. There may be a _perceived_ increase in danger, but that's not the same thing. It seems pretty clear (to me) to be cultural. Not cultural in some static sense (e.g. American vs Swiss), but cultural as in the culture of policing in the US has been changing over time. Our police has treated American citizens as more dangerous while the opposite is true. The real question is why. Why have Americans idea of the level of crime in society so diverged from reality? Can this be reversed?
  - donny2018 6y ago
    I want to agree with you, but the US is the only 1-st world country in the top of the list of countries by homicide rate per capita: https://www.indexmundi.com/facts/indicators/VC.IHR.PSRC.P5/rankings https://www.indexmundi.com/facts/indicators/VC.IHR.PSRC.P5/r... Which pretty much is in line with what I get about US through my news feed and anecdotally. I don't know why, but there is definitely something wrong with US culture of normalized violence. And the police is just a reflection of that, reaction if you will.
- r00fus 6y ago
  Perhaps it's all about training and the culture of "killology" that's seeping into our police forces [1]. Or maybe it's the fact that corporations pay police to "protect and serve" them instead of the general public [2]. Or it's the "perceived" danger from the cops' point of view? [1] https://www.insider.com/bulletproof-dave-grossman-police-trainer-teaching-officers-how-to-kill-2020-6 https://www.insider.com/bulletproof-dave-grossman-police-tra... [2] https://readsludge.com/2020/06/19/corporate-backers-of-the-blue-how-corporations-bankroll-u-s-police-foundations/ https://readsludge.com/2020/06/19/corporate-backers-of-the-b...
- counterpoint1 6y ago
  > "In my country" > "In the US, it's very different" If I had a dollar for every time someone on HN who doesn't live in the US nonetheless weighs in as an expert on American life I could retire. Do you think a data scientist who had ethical concerns about covid data manipulation is a violent murderer? Do you think America in real life is like a movie with gun fights and explosions? There is essentially zero risk of someone shooting a cop in a routine situation. They weren't raiding some druglord gang headquarters or ISIS terrorist operation.
  - donny2018 6y ago
    Again, in my country criminals don’t carry guns and unlikely to be under drug influence = zero police shootings. Vs your country, where criminals do carry guns = lots of police shootings. No need to be American to connect the dots.
gremlinsinc 6y ago
Honestly, being a cop is probably no more 'dangerous' than walking into any business establishment and getting blown away by an insane person. I used to deliver pizza's back in the 90s, I never would've thought my job was top 5 for deaths, and cops were > 18th, but those are the statistics.