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Looking at the games which has been marked as "playable: no" it seems that their definition of "playable" means that it runs without crashing/glitching. I think

Looking at the games which has been marked as "playable: no" it seems that their definition of "playable" means that it runs without crashing/glitching. I think that's perfectly sensible definition. A game can have 60FPS, but be unplayable because it crashes when you switch scenes. And a game can have 5FPS, but be "playable". They should have another column called "recommended" though, since filtering by "playable" isn't very useful…

LilBytes 6y ago
Yes, but placing Solitaire and Alien Isolation into the same category that "playable" means it can be launched and interacted with at 7-12 FPS is absolutely disingenuous. It wholly matters what type of game we're referring to. Yes, Solitaire at low FPS is playable. I mean, it doesn't matter. At all. Playable for Solitaire is almost Boolean. A suspenseful, atmospheric horror shooter? How it plays is absolutely important and why has that context been disregarded?
croes 6y ago
Nope,it has to run mostly without crashes and glitches and need a certain FPS to be called playable.
- thih9 6y ago
  > need a certain FPS to be called playable What FPS exactly? Isn’t that very subjective? Some people might be happy with 15fps, others would want 60fps. I like the approach in this dataset because the reader can decide for themselves.
  - tpetry 6y ago
    You are absolutely right! And with gammers setting more and more enthusiastic levels (e.g. 120fps) is a problem. But the bare minimum should be fps like a movie, so 24fps or 30fps. This will not be perfect, but any animation may look a little bit smoother than 15fps
  - gameswithgo 6y ago
    it is subjective but nobody is happy with a first person 3d game at 15fps
  - bovermyer 6y ago
    Here's an interesting link on this subject: https://www.filmindependent.org/blog/hacking-film-24-frames-per-second/ https://www.filmindependent.org/blog/hacking-film-24-frames-...
  - Wowfunhappy 6y ago
    Ideally it should depend on the type of game (turn based games can be fine at 15 fps, a fighting game could be legitimately difficult to play at anything less than 60), but if you need a common baseline, 30 fps seems reasonable. 10 fps probably isn't.
djaychela 6y ago
I think that column should be "runs" rather than playable. Yes, a chess game could well be OK at 5fps, but no-one's going to find any game with action playable at 5fps. Of course playability is a more subjective scale, but having read some of the table, this looks much more disappointing that I was expecting - for instance considering being able to play "among us" as a win seems to be a very low bar!
- tosh 6y ago
  It actually used to read "runs", I should have kept that wording for now. Initially I wanted to derive the value from the FPS column and from the comments but like you already wrote this does not work well as it is highly dependant on the genre of even the specific game. Thanks a lot for your thoughts on this. It is one of the most important aspects to improve apart of getting more reports. Appreciate it!
starfallg 6y ago
In gaming circles, playable has always meant "at an acceptable FPS". What you're talking about (the crashes/glitches) is what whether it fully works or not (or somewhere in between).
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
  The definition of "an acceptable FPS" has changed over time though. I certainly remember playing a lot of 3D games in the 90s that ran at 20FPS or less and were considered playable.
  - tosh 6y ago
    I remember playing Tomb Raider on the Saturn which ran at 15-20 FPS depending on where you are in the game. It was absolutely breathtaking. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VutzIK3DqZE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VutzIK3DqZE
tosh 6y ago
Thanks a lot for the comment and the suggestion. As quick fix I will add context for the current definition of "playable" and also add this to the form to submit reports. As next step I will look into how to best model and communicate something like a "recommended" context and most likely make that the default view (as this I think will be what most people will be interested in knowing). Thank you!

LilBytes 6y ago

Yes, but placing Solitaire and Alien Isolation into the same category that "playable" means it can be launched and interacted with at 7-12 FPS is absolutely disingenuous. It wholly matters what type of game we're referring to. Yes, Solitaire at low FPS is playable. I mean, it doesn't matter. At all. Playable for Solitaire is almost Boolean. A suspenseful, atmospheric horror shooter? How it plays is absolutely important and why has that context been disregarded?

croes 6y ago

Nope,it has to run mostly without crashes and glitches and need a certain FPS to be called playable.

thih9 6y ago
> need a certain FPS to be called playable What FPS exactly? Isn’t that very subjective? Some people might be happy with 15fps, others would want 60fps. I like the approach in this dataset because the reader can decide for themselves.
- tpetry 6y ago
  You are absolutely right! And with gammers setting more and more enthusiastic levels (e.g. 120fps) is a problem. But the bare minimum should be fps like a movie, so 24fps or 30fps. This will not be perfect, but any animation may look a little bit smoother than 15fps
- gameswithgo 6y ago
  it is subjective but nobody is happy with a first person 3d game at 15fps
- bovermyer 6y ago
  Here's an interesting link on this subject: https://www.filmindependent.org/blog/hacking-film-24-frames-per-second/ https://www.filmindependent.org/blog/hacking-film-24-frames-...
- Wowfunhappy 6y ago
  Ideally it should depend on the type of game (turn based games can be fine at 15 fps, a fighting game could be legitimately difficult to play at anything less than 60), but if you need a common baseline, 30 fps seems reasonable. 10 fps probably isn't.

djaychela 6y ago

I think that column should be "runs" rather than playable. Yes, a chess game could well be OK at 5fps, but no-one's going to find any game with action playable at 5fps. Of course playability is a more subjective scale, but having read some of the table, this looks much more disappointing that I was expecting - for instance considering being able to play "among us" as a win seems to be a very low bar!

tosh 6y ago
It actually used to read "runs", I should have kept that wording for now. Initially I wanted to derive the value from the FPS column and from the comments but like you already wrote this does not work well as it is highly dependant on the genre of even the specific game. Thanks a lot for your thoughts on this. It is one of the most important aspects to improve apart of getting more reports. Appreciate it!

starfallg 6y ago

In gaming circles, playable has always meant "at an acceptable FPS". What you're talking about (the crashes/glitches) is what whether it fully works or not (or somewhere in between).

AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
The definition of "an acceptable FPS" has changed over time though. I certainly remember playing a lot of 3D games in the 90s that ran at 20FPS or less and were considered playable.
- tosh 6y ago
  I remember playing Tomb Raider on the Saturn which ran at 15-20 FPS depending on where you are in the game. It was absolutely breathtaking. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VutzIK3DqZE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VutzIK3DqZE

tosh 6y ago

Thanks a lot for the comment and the suggestion. As quick fix I will add context for the current definition of "playable" and also add this to the form to submit reports. As next step I will look into how to best model and communicate something like a "recommended" context and most likely make that the default view (as this I think will be what most people will be interested in knowing). Thank you!