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The cables he received from Bradley Manning and then published have been noted to be the impetus to the democratic uprising throughout the Middle East (http://n

The cables he received from Bradley Manning and then published have been noted to be the impetus to the democratic uprising throughout the Middle East (http://news.scotsman.com/world/Tunisia-Uprising-called-first-39Wikileaks.6692071.jp http://news.scotsman.com/world/Tunisia-Uprising-called-first...). Over the next few years we will see if all these Middle Eastern countries become democratic and not under a heavy handed stifling regime/dictatorship. If most go democratic that is a win for all countries and ironically best for the U.S.

wnoise 15y ago
allegedly from Bradley Manning.
- corin_ 15y ago
  Is there any doubt he did it? I've heard of him complaining about how he has been treated, but as far as I can remember he hasn't (publicly) claimed not to have done it. While I also haven't heard him to confess, that could be to make legal proceedings easier to win, whereas if he actually didn't do it, surely that claim would have been made?
  - VladRussian 15y ago
    after several months of such treatment he will easily confess to being an elephant and a little mouse at the same time. Sleep deprivation does wonder to human brain. Water boarding doesn't leave any traces (and thus we can believe official statements not mentioning application of water boarding to Manning :) and does even more wonders to a human (anybody who don't believe that it is a torture - your comments are welcome after you spend 5 full minutes without breathing. Please ask a friend for help if you can't hold your breath for that long on your own.)
    - jrockway 15y ago
      What evidence is there of him being tortured? It seems he's basically in solitary confinement: 3 meals a day, sleep when he wants it, and an hour of exercise. It's not joyous, and months without human contact is not exactly good for people, but he is not being treated terribly from what I understand. What's terrible is how long he's been held without trial, however.
      - pemulis 15y ago
        Prolonged isolation causes measurable damage to the brain. His "exercise" consists of walking slowly in a circle for one hour; no other exercise is allowed. He has to answer the guards' question, "Are you okay?" every five minutes. Imagine how disruptive that would be to your thoughts, having to answer that question every five minutes for over half a year. He can not sleep whenever he wants: Sleep is only allowed between 8pm and 5am. If he goes to sleep at any other time, they wake him up. If he happens to turn away from the camera or is completely covered by his blanket during sleep, they wake him up. He has been made to strip publicly for no reason. He has been made to sleep naked for no reason. He has been denied sheets and a pillow for no reason. They have denied the Red Cross' request to make an official visit. He is being treated terribly. Edit: Sorry, it was the UN Special Rapporteur for Torture, not the Red Cross.
        alphakappa 15y ago
        As an aside, I wonder how bad it is for the guard who has to ask him that question every five minutes. Probably drives him crazy too.
      - kmfrk 15y ago
        Long-term solitary confinement is tantamount to torture[1], although it would currently fail to meet some definitions of torture. Furthermore, according to Lt. Col. David Coombs, Manning's counsel: “[Manning] is held in solitary confinement. For 23 hours per day, he sits in his cell. The guards check on him every five minutes by asking him if he is okay. He is required to respond in some affirmative manner. At night, if the guards can not see him clearly, because he has a blanket over his head or he is curled up towards the wall, they will wake him in order to ensure that he is okay. He receives each of his meals in his cell. He is not allowed to have a pillow or sheets. He is not allowed to have any personal items in his cell. He is only allowed to have one book or one magazine at any given time to read. The book or magazine is taken away from him at the end of the day before he goes to sleep. He is prevented from exercising in his cell. If he attempts to do push-ups, sit-ups, or any other form of exercise he will be forced to stop. He receives one hour of exercise outside of his cell daily. The guards take him to a room and allow him to walk. He usually walks in figure eights around the room. When he goes to sleep, he is required to strip down to his underwear and surrender his clothing to the guards.”[2] According to an official at the Marine brig at Quantico, Va., the nudity is in fact happening[3][4]. Now, I'm not saying that all the aforementioned accusations are true, but it now seems clear that the solitary confinement and forced nudity at least are happening - over several months of illegal incarceration without due trial of any kind. [1]: http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/12/14/manning/index.html http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/12/14... [2]: http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2011/03/04/morrell/index.html http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2011/03/04... [3]: http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2011/03/05/manning http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2011/03/05... [4]: https://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/05/world/05manning.html?_r=1 https://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/05/world/05manning.html?_r=1
  - marshray 15y ago
    Is there any doubt he did it? It's interesting that you would ask it that way. The only evidence I've heard of existing against him is just an unauthenticated plain text file provided by a convicted felon. Possibly there's a solid case there, I'm just saying I haven't heard of it.
    - corin_ 15y ago
      Sure, and if there was a denial then I'd be inclined to believe that, but as far as I know there hasn't been one. Even his many supporters are crying out for him to be treated well in prison, I don't think there have been any of his supporters claiming his innocence?
      - marshray 15y ago
        if there was a denial then I'd be inclined to believe that, but as far as I know there hasn't been one In the US system, the defendant is given the presumption of innocence and isn't obligated to issue public denials and such. So regardless of whether or not he did it, he's probably better off just not saying anything at all. The fact that he's active-duty military changes a lot of things about the process too, but apparently not in the direction of making it into a public media trial.
  - wnoise 15y ago
    You've heard representatives of him complaining. You've actually heard nothing from him. His supporters obviously don't know that he's innocent, so they're sensibly not saying he is. People can't know he did it, they too should sensibly not say he's guilty.
  - ryoshu 15y ago
    We allegedly still have the presumption of innocence in the US.
  - fleitz 15y ago
    There are huge legal doubts. The first thing to consider is whether a person kept in the conditions that Manning was is able to properly defend themselves. If I was a member of the jury I could not in good conscience return a guilty verdict to any organization the holds it's prisoners in the conditions that the US Military holds their prisoners. The 5th amendment is very important and Manning's decision to use it is not an indicator of his guilt. Guilt must be proven beyond a reasonable doubt and it must be for laws that are just. A plaintext log from a convicted felon does not push the bar over that threshold in my opinion. When the commanding officer of ever jury member has instructed them that he is guilty it would raise doubts in my mind as to whether the laws that allow a trial to take place after such instruction are just. Also, the fact that you need to give up many of your rights in order to be eligible for treatment under the UCMJ raises many issues. The economic pressures and well as indoctrinal issues due to mandatory schooling and the content of that schooling raise questions as to whether Manning was of sound mind and free from duress when signing the UCMJ. It's important to note that in the mandatory school system a class on critical thinking is not required, unlike some non-mandatory systems like IB where critical thinking is a required component.
    - rdtsc 15y ago
      > If I was a member of the jury I could not in good conscience return a guilty verdict to any organization the holds it's prisoners in the conditions that the US Military holds their prisoners. What I am interested is how people like you get on the jury without being filtered out. You are certainly not someone the prosecution would want on. Are juries selected for authoritarianism and blind conformity, could you fake it through the selection process?
  - ScottBurson 15y ago
    I don't think this deserved the downvotes. What can be proved in a court of law is one thing; what we as onlookers believe probably happened can be something quite different. I have contributed to Manning's defense, but there's no doubt in my mind that he leaked the cables. I'm just hoping his defense team can get him acquitted anyway. And indeed, it appears that the hard evidence is remarkably weak, if indeed there is any at all. Why am I hoping he is acquitted? Because his intentions really were those of a whistleblower, and I think he has done us citizens a service. Really, Manning should have been named in this prize along with Assange.

wnoise 15y ago

allegedly from Bradley Manning.

corin_ 15y ago
Is there any doubt he did it? I've heard of him complaining about how he has been treated, but as far as I can remember he hasn't (publicly) claimed not to have done it. While I also haven't heard him to confess, that could be to make legal proceedings easier to win, whereas if he actually didn't do it, surely that claim would have been made?
- VladRussian 15y ago
  after several months of such treatment he will easily confess to being an elephant and a little mouse at the same time. Sleep deprivation does wonder to human brain. Water boarding doesn't leave any traces (and thus we can believe official statements not mentioning application of water boarding to Manning :) and does even more wonders to a human (anybody who don't believe that it is a torture - your comments are welcome after you spend 5 full minutes without breathing. Please ask a friend for help if you can't hold your breath for that long on your own.)
  - jrockway 15y ago
    What evidence is there of him being tortured? It seems he's basically in solitary confinement: 3 meals a day, sleep when he wants it, and an hour of exercise. It's not joyous, and months without human contact is not exactly good for people, but he is not being treated terribly from what I understand. What's terrible is how long he's been held without trial, however.
    - pemulis 15y ago
      Prolonged isolation causes measurable damage to the brain. His "exercise" consists of walking slowly in a circle for one hour; no other exercise is allowed. He has to answer the guards' question, "Are you okay?" every five minutes. Imagine how disruptive that would be to your thoughts, having to answer that question every five minutes for over half a year. He can not sleep whenever he wants: Sleep is only allowed between 8pm and 5am. If he goes to sleep at any other time, they wake him up. If he happens to turn away from the camera or is completely covered by his blanket during sleep, they wake him up. He has been made to strip publicly for no reason. He has been made to sleep naked for no reason. He has been denied sheets and a pillow for no reason. They have denied the Red Cross' request to make an official visit. He is being treated terribly. Edit: Sorry, it was the UN Special Rapporteur for Torture, not the Red Cross.
      - alphakappa 15y ago
        As an aside, I wonder how bad it is for the guard who has to ask him that question every five minutes. Probably drives him crazy too.
    - kmfrk 15y ago
      Long-term solitary confinement is tantamount to torture[1], although it would currently fail to meet some definitions of torture. Furthermore, according to Lt. Col. David Coombs, Manning's counsel: “[Manning] is held in solitary confinement. For 23 hours per day, he sits in his cell. The guards check on him every five minutes by asking him if he is okay. He is required to respond in some affirmative manner. At night, if the guards can not see him clearly, because he has a blanket over his head or he is curled up towards the wall, they will wake him in order to ensure that he is okay. He receives each of his meals in his cell. He is not allowed to have a pillow or sheets. He is not allowed to have any personal items in his cell. He is only allowed to have one book or one magazine at any given time to read. The book or magazine is taken away from him at the end of the day before he goes to sleep. He is prevented from exercising in his cell. If he attempts to do push-ups, sit-ups, or any other form of exercise he will be forced to stop. He receives one hour of exercise outside of his cell daily. The guards take him to a room and allow him to walk. He usually walks in figure eights around the room. When he goes to sleep, he is required to strip down to his underwear and surrender his clothing to the guards.”[2] According to an official at the Marine brig at Quantico, Va., the nudity is in fact happening[3][4]. Now, I'm not saying that all the aforementioned accusations are true, but it now seems clear that the solitary confinement and forced nudity at least are happening - over several months of illegal incarceration without due trial of any kind. [1]: http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/12/14/manning/index.html http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/12/14... [2]: http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2011/03/04/morrell/index.html http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2011/03/04... [3]: http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2011/03/05/manning http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2011/03/05... [4]: https://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/05/world/05manning.html?_r=1 https://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/05/world/05manning.html?_r=1
- marshray 15y ago
  Is there any doubt he did it? It's interesting that you would ask it that way. The only evidence I've heard of existing against him is just an unauthenticated plain text file provided by a convicted felon. Possibly there's a solid case there, I'm just saying I haven't heard of it.
  - corin_ 15y ago
    Sure, and if there was a denial then I'd be inclined to believe that, but as far as I know there hasn't been one. Even his many supporters are crying out for him to be treated well in prison, I don't think there have been any of his supporters claiming his innocence?
    - marshray 15y ago
      if there was a denial then I'd be inclined to believe that, but as far as I know there hasn't been one In the US system, the defendant is given the presumption of innocence and isn't obligated to issue public denials and such. So regardless of whether or not he did it, he's probably better off just not saying anything at all. The fact that he's active-duty military changes a lot of things about the process too, but apparently not in the direction of making it into a public media trial.
- wnoise 15y ago
  You've heard representatives of him complaining. You've actually heard nothing from him. His supporters obviously don't know that he's innocent, so they're sensibly not saying he is. People can't know he did it, they too should sensibly not say he's guilty.
- ryoshu 15y ago
  We allegedly still have the presumption of innocence in the US.
- fleitz 15y ago
  There are huge legal doubts. The first thing to consider is whether a person kept in the conditions that Manning was is able to properly defend themselves. If I was a member of the jury I could not in good conscience return a guilty verdict to any organization the holds it's prisoners in the conditions that the US Military holds their prisoners. The 5th amendment is very important and Manning's decision to use it is not an indicator of his guilt. Guilt must be proven beyond a reasonable doubt and it must be for laws that are just. A plaintext log from a convicted felon does not push the bar over that threshold in my opinion. When the commanding officer of ever jury member has instructed them that he is guilty it would raise doubts in my mind as to whether the laws that allow a trial to take place after such instruction are just. Also, the fact that you need to give up many of your rights in order to be eligible for treatment under the UCMJ raises many issues. The economic pressures and well as indoctrinal issues due to mandatory schooling and the content of that schooling raise questions as to whether Manning was of sound mind and free from duress when signing the UCMJ. It's important to note that in the mandatory school system a class on critical thinking is not required, unlike some non-mandatory systems like IB where critical thinking is a required component.
  - rdtsc 15y ago
    > If I was a member of the jury I could not in good conscience return a guilty verdict to any organization the holds it's prisoners in the conditions that the US Military holds their prisoners. What I am interested is how people like you get on the jury without being filtered out. You are certainly not someone the prosecution would want on. Are juries selected for authoritarianism and blind conformity, could you fake it through the selection process?
- ScottBurson 15y ago
  I don't think this deserved the downvotes. What can be proved in a court of law is one thing; what we as onlookers believe probably happened can be something quite different. I have contributed to Manning's defense, but there's no doubt in my mind that he leaked the cables. I'm just hoping his defense team can get him acquitted anyway. And indeed, it appears that the hard evidence is remarkably weak, if indeed there is any at all. Why am I hoping he is acquitted? Because his intentions really were those of a whistleblower, and I think he has done us citizens a service. Really, Manning should have been named in this prize along with Assange.